Orangebloods Board/Myth/Mack

[sbsmith]

UT discipline problems are largely the result of Austin - it is a party city.

I can't begin to fathom the discipline problems Mack would have here.

[Pony_Law]

Mack brown got noticeably less interested in recruiting and coaching around colt McCoy's senior year. He was sitting on his laurels and thqt attitudinal permeates down throughout the team. If the coach has the attitude of I've made it and I'm untouchable so will hotshot high school kids who have talent but need to get better everyday inorder to be in the top of college football. Charlie strong is actually fighting to change the entitlement mentality that clearly had set it.

Additionally Mack destroyed the QB pipeline at texas. By basically establishing thwt a very high recruit will not redshirt and will,play 3 plus years he got limited to 1 QB recruite who would be thrown in when they weren't really ready. Then when you miss on the quarterback position (Gilbert and ash) you have no competent backups and you are mired in mediority.

All that said Mack did have the talent and scheduling clout to still win 8 gmaes a year but I'm not sure that would happen at smu unless you were all in.

[footballdad]

I'm lmao at the UT fans today. Not because they lost to a really good team, but because they are buying into the myth that they have no talent and are having a pity party on their board. A very little bit of research indicates that they have more blue chip recruits on their roster than anyone else in the Big 12.

All of this makes me even more hesitant to think that Mack should be considered for our job. Either he couldnt beat Aggie and Baylor in recruiting at the easiest place in Texas to recruit, or he couldnt do anything with the talent. Either way, it is a no go for me.

Strong has had to kick a lot of the undisciplined street gangsters off the team. Mack recruited players that were not disciplined. It is going to take Strong about 3 years to clean that mess up.

That Street Gangster crap is false and borderline racist. In terms of criminal problems, the horns were no worse than Aggies, Tech, TCU, or OU. Strong is using draconian rules and drug testing to run off guys he doesn't want. That's it.

Strong wants to run the Horns like a company of Marines. Will that work? I doubt it.

Worked just fine everywhere else he's been very successful and won big. If they don't give him enough time to turn it around it's on UT, not Strong. All he's doing is getting rid of kids that won't buy into his culture to open up spots for his future commits that will buy in 100%. Sounds like a solid strategy.

If I'm a fan, alumni, or parent I'm buying into the Strong philosophy over that of Kingsbury. I guess we'll see which the players prefer and the direction of each program in the next 1-3 years.

[Topper]

Diggety I think UT did have off filed issues in excess of their peers. That is not an imagined problem.

Look up TCU, OU, tamu. They weren't bastions of purity.

UT discipline problems are largely the result of Austin - it is a party city.

I have lived in Austin for 25 years and I can tell you that the thugs on the UT football team (not a majority by any means, but a significant number of young men) get away with whole lot more than they should. The racism, if there is any, is that the school and the fans expect these guys, who are mostly African American, to give 100% to their football careers and could care less about their character or academic or career development. Strong may be changing that culture, but it certainly exists among the overwhelmingly Caucasian fan base.

[Stallion]

There is simply zero, nada, zilch evidence that UT recruits more academically marginal athletes than other schools in Texas over the last decade under Mack Brown. In fact, it has admitted probably the least number of academically marginal athletes than any school but Rice.

[lwjr]

Diggety I think UT did have off filed issues in excess of their peers. That is not an imagined problem.

Look up TCU, OU, tamu. They weren't bastions of purity.

UT discipline problems are largely the result of Austin - it is a party city.

I have lived in Austin for 25 years and I can tell you that the thugs on the UT football team (not a majority by any means, but a significant number of young men) get away with whole lot more than they should. The racism, if there is any, is that the school and the fans expect these guys, who are mostly African American, to give 100% to their football careers and could care less about their character or academic or career development. Strong may be changing that culture, but it certainly exists among the overwhelmingly Caucasian fan base.

I would believe your statement applies to almost every major college football program

[Stallion]

Here is a comprehensive study done by Atlanta Journal Constitution (cited by US NEWS and World Report) done in 2008 during Mack Brown's tenure-they took down the exhibit that showed average SATs of all reporting schools but notice UT was not in the group with Tech, A&M, Arkansas and OSU. I have previously posted the results on ponyfans about UT I'll see if I can find it. I don't think the article is available online anymore from AJC-or its behind a pay wall

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/p ... sat-scores

[East Coast Mustang]

Spoke to a big Texas booster yesterday who is very well connected with Mack-- he said Mack has zero interest in the SMU job. Take that for what it's worth. I think we have many better options anyways

[Bergermeister]

Every Texas booster I've ever talked to is "well connected" to Mack Brown.

[lwjr]

I think it is time for everyone to move on from the Mack Brown is he or isn't he interested in the SMU job. He is not coming to SMU.
As a disclaimer, I do not know Mack and I have not talked to anyone that knows Mack Brown

[East Coast Mustang]

Every Texas booster I've ever talked to is "well connected" to Mack Brown.

It was someone who had strongly advocated for him to be retained after 2013 season...his displeasure with the current situation in Austin was pretty interesting to hear as well. He said Strong is running off guys who are far from "bad apples" to make it seem like he inherited an impossible situation when that may not actually be the case. After all, they were 8-4 last year and beat multiple bowl teams (OU, KSU, Tech). Also very concerned about Strong's ability to recruit at a high level

[Digetydog]

Every Texas booster I've ever talked to is "well connected" to Mack Brown.

It was someone who had strongly advocated for him to be retained after 2013 season...his displeasure with the current situation in Austin was pretty interesting to hear as well. He said Strong is running off guys who are far from "bad apples" to make it seem like he inherited an impossible situation when that may not actually be the case. After all, they were 8-4 last year and beat multiple bowl teams (OU, KSU, Tech). Also very concerned about Strong's ability to recruit at a high level

I was as nerdy as they come out of HS, but I would not have signed up for Strong's boot camp approach to college. I can't imagine many 4-5 star recruits will be willing to sign up for his program.

Heck, Strong's program makes Baylor look like a party school.

[Puckhead48E]

Not a single reference in this regarding academic levels in recruiting before Stallion brought it up, and it has nothing to do with the question of UT and discipline unless you buy the argument that recruits that are marginal academically are inherently more likely to be disciplinary problems.

Seems we have a bit a a talent problem currently, and I don't think there is a rash of off-field incidents, so marginal athletic ability doesn't seem to be an arbiter of disciplinary problems either.

There are many incidences of successful programs out there where there is not a high level of off-field incidents, so success doesn't seem to be an arbiter of disciplinary problems.

I would say the one thing that runs true throughout programs that seem to be linked to off-field incidents in a higher than average rate is a systemic sense of entitlement. It also doesn't help when that program is in a bigger city, because those police are often less likely to overlook actions that small-town cops and university police ignore.

Taking that blanket and rather unscientific statement and applying it to Austin and we see a powerful confluence of forces that make it a perfect place for excess to thrive. Huge school that dominates the city. Smaller sized city that embraces that school financially and emotionally (and really doesn't have anything else going on). History of doing well that is only exceeded by the belief of excellence held firmly by alumni, players, and fans. Basically, everything collides to make it more likely that excess could occur in such a location (I'm not saying inevitable, just more likely to happen...like if you put a tattoo parlor next to the OSU practice facility or a gun shop next to the football dorm at OU under Switzer).

So what is the ignition source that lights that combustible situation? The coach and the way he runs that program (or in the state of Ohio State, the school itself after their recent 20+ years of NCAA investigative excellence across their programs). I would say Mack Brown enabled the excess at UT (mostly by omission, not commission) by not holding his players to a standard. So long as Strong proves he can coach winners and return the school to winning, kids will buy into his system. With players getting paid a "stipend" soon, there will be more scrutiny on their actions and less likeliness to overlook their misdeeds.

I hope Strong succeeds, because it would be nice to see someone who sets standards instead of violates them (read the entire SEC) win.