Will Baylor & TCU get the SMU Treatment?

[1983 Cotton Bowl]

I realize that I am going to get pilloried on an SMU board for even daring to challenge the conventional wisdom. . .but I'm a glutton for punishment, so here it goes.

Did SMU in 1982 actually have "a better record against better competition" than Penn State? And were "our Mustangs screwed by the National Media out of our title"?

Since the system in 1982 was based on AP voting, the question of whether SMU would have won a head-to-head matchup against Penn State that year is irrelevant. For the record, however, I think the Ponies would have won based on the strength of our defense.

If you were a voter in 1982, however, here are the comparative bodies of work.

SMU

1982-09-11 Tulane* W 51-7
1982-09-18 at Texas-El Paso* W 31-10
1982-09-25 Texas Christian W 16-13
1982-10-02 North Texas State* W 38-10
1982-10-09 at Baylor W 22-19
1982-10-16 Houston W 20-14
1982-10-23 at #19 Texas W 30-17
1982-10-30 Texas A&M W 47-9
1982-11-06 at Rice W 41-14
1982-11-13 at Texas Tech W 34-27
1982-11-20 #9 Arkansas T 17-17
1983-01-01 vs. #6 Pittsburgh (Cotton Bowl Classic) W 7-3


Penn State

September 4, 1982 Temple W 31-14
September 11, 1982 Maryland W 39–31
September 18, 1982 Rutgers W 49–14
September 25, 1982 #2 Nebraska W 27–24
October 9, 1982 at #4 Alabama L 21–42
October 16, 1982 Syracuse W 28–7
October 23, 1982 at #13 West Virginia W 24–0
October 30, 1982 at Boston College W 52–17
November 6, 1982 NC State W 54–0
November 13, 1982 at #13 Notre Dame W 24–14
November 26, 1982 #5 Pittsburgh W 19–10 85,522
January 1, 1983 vs. #1 Georgia (Sugar Bowl) W 27–23

1. SMU played 3 ranked teams, Penn State played 5.

Advantage: Penn State

2. Penn State finished the season with 3 straight wins against ranked teams. . .Including on the road at Notre Dame (back when that was a big thing), a win against the same Pitt team we faced in the Cotton Bowl, and finally a Sugar Bowl win against #1 Alabama.

SMU on the other hand, closed out the season by barely pulling a win out of their [deleted] against an unranked Texas Tech team, a tie at home against Arkansas, and finally a win against Pitt in the Cotton Bowl.

Advantage: Penn State

3. Penn State's signature win was against #1 Georgia. SMU's signature win was against #19 Texas.

Advantage: Penn State

4. Now for the big one. . .Penn State lost in week 5 on the road at #4 Alabama. And they lost big.
SMU, on the other hand, did not lose a game in 1982, but almost lost to Tech and tied Arkansas at home.

On its face, advantage: SMU. But looking a little closer... Penn State's only loss was on the road to the #4 team in the country, a week after beatin #2 Nebraska. Could SMU have walked into Tuscaloosa that year and beat Alabama? I think that is far from certain. And Penn State later beat Notre Dame on the road and I think definitely closed out the season stronger than SMU.

So if I'm a voter in 1982, I don't think choosing Penn State as #1 is an outrageous miscarriage of justice. Like I said, I think SMU wins head-to-head. . .but that's not how it worked in 1982. So, for the sake of argument, I'll take the position that SMU did not get screwed out of anything. Rather, based on the comparative bodies of work, a strong argument can be made that the pollsters got it right.

Discuss.

[Digetydog]

I realize that I am going to get pilloried on an SMU board for even daring to challenge the conventional wisdom. . .but I'm a glutton for punishment, so here it goes.

Did SMU in 1982 actually have "a better record against better competition" than Penn State? And were "our Mustangs screwed by the National Media out of our title"?

Since the system in 1982 was based on AP voting, the question of whether SMU would have won a head-to-head matchup against Penn State that year is irrelevant. For the record, however, I think the Ponies would have won based on the strength of our defense.

If you were a voter in 1982, however, here are the comparative bodies of work.

SMU

1982-09-11 Tulane* W 51-7
1982-09-18 at Texas-El Paso* W 31-10
1982-09-25 Texas Christian W 16-13
1982-10-02 North Texas State* W 38-10
1982-10-09 at Baylor W 22-19
1982-10-16 Houston W 20-14
1982-10-23 at #19 Texas W 30-17
1982-10-30 Texas A&M W 47-9
1982-11-06 at Rice W 41-14
1982-11-13 at Texas Tech W 34-27
1982-11-20 #9 Arkansas T 17-17
1983-01-01 vs. #6 Pittsburgh (Cotton Bowl Classic) W 7-3


Penn State

September 4, 1982 Temple W 31-14
September 11, 1982 Maryland W 39–31
September 18, 1982 Rutgers W 49–14
September 25, 1982 #2 Nebraska W 27–24
October 9, 1982 at #4 Alabama L 21–42
October 16, 1982 Syracuse W 28–7
October 23, 1982 at #13 West Virginia W 24–0
October 30, 1982 at Boston College W 52–17
November 6, 1982 NC State W 54–0
November 13, 1982 at #13 Notre Dame W 24–14
November 26, 1982 #5 Pittsburgh W 19–10 85,522
January 1, 1983 vs. #1 Georgia (Sugar Bowl) W 27–23

1. SMU played 3 ranked teams, Penn State played 5.

Advantage: Penn State

2. Penn State finished the season with 3 straight wins against ranked teams. . .Including on the road at Notre Dame (back when that was a big thing), a win against the same Pitt team we faced in the Cotton Bowl, and finally a Sugar Bowl win against #1 Alabama.

SMU on the other hand, closed out the season by barely pulling a win out of their [deleted] against an unranked Texas Tech team, a tie at home against Arkansas, and finally a win against Pitt in the Cotton Bowl.

Advantage: Penn State

3. Penn State's signature win was against #1 Georgia. SMU's signature win was against #19 Texas.

Advantage: Penn State

4. Now for the big one. . .Penn State lost in week 5 on the road at #4 Alabama. And they lost big.
SMU, on the other hand, did not lose a game in 1982, but almost lost to Tech and tied Arkansas at home.

On its face, advantage: SMU. But looking a little closer... Penn State's only loss was on the road to the #4 team in the country, a week after beatin #2 Nebraska. Could SMU have walked into Tuscaloosa that year and beat Alabama? I think that is far from certain. And Penn State later beat Notre Dame on the road and I think definitely closed out the season stronger than SMU.

So if I'm a voter in 1982, I don't think choosing Penn State as #1 is an outrageous miscarriage of justice. Like I said, I think SMU wins head-to-head. . .but that's not how it worked in 1982. So, for the sake of argument, I'll take the position that SMU did not get screwed out of anything. Rather, based on the comparative bodies of work, a strong argument can be made that the pollsters got it right.

Discuss.

They got hammered. We didn't.

[Nacho]

this playoff is a bigger joke than the bcs.

[ericdickerson4life]

Has anyone thought that the real reason they dropped FSU to 4 was for where they would be playing that first round game. FSU at 4 puts them in the Sugar Bowl to play Bama. A closer game than traveling all the way to Cali to face Oregon if ranked 3. The committee seems to be doing them a favor by dropping them down a spot.

[Digetydog]

Has anyone thought that the real reason they dropped FSU to 4 was for where they would be playing that first round game. FSU at 4 puts them in the Sugar Bowl to play Bama. A closer game than traveling all the way to Cali to face Oregon if ranked 3. The committee seems to be doing them a favor by dropping them down a spot.

Is there any chance Winston's disciplinary hearing is resolved before the committee has to make a final decision? If he is suspended, do they drop out of the stop 4?

[mrydel]

I am still having trouble with the fact only one team in the country has not lost a game since 2012 and they keep dropping each week instead of being #1.

[MustangStealth]

I am still having trouble with the fact only one team in the country has not lost a game since 2012 and they keep dropping each week instead of being #1.

College football has been handed over to a room full of morons.

[mrydel]

How do they determine the winner of the final four since head to head does not matter?

[ReedFrawg]

I am still having trouble with the fact only one team in the country has not lost a game since 2012 and they keep dropping each week instead of being #1.

Do you think FSU is the best team in the country?

[gostangs]

if I was a Baylor fan my head would be about to explode. Forgetting we should have had their spot in the big 12 and they scheduled like a bunch of Baptist, they did actually beat TCU - which in my view should have more weight then it is getting.

So there is zero chance is FSU wins that they drop out - but ESPN REALLY wants OSU in this deal, so it will be interesting to say the least. I would have said TCU is safe, but nobody has seen this happen before so no idea how fluid the last game will make all of it.

[mrydel]

I am still having trouble with the fact only one team in the country has not lost a game since 2012 and they keep dropping each week instead of being #1.

Do you think FSU is the best team in the country?

Until someone can beat them yes. Your school could not make it through the season undefeated. Alabama could not. Neither could Oregon. FSU has done it 2 years in a row ( so far). Their schedule has not been patsies although granted not SEC Westish. They may well get beat this week and that would settle somewhat. Right now I rate them FSU, Alabama, Oregon, Baylor, TCU, Arizona, OSU.

But they do not let me in the room.

[PonyFan32]

I personally think Penn State and SMU should have been split champions in 1982 like happened with teams in 1990, 1991, and 1997. I don't see how anyone could say definitively that one was better than the other based on who they played and how they performed. But I think you have to really question how you could justify putting a 1 loss team ahead of an undefeated team without a big disparity in schedules. Penn St had the harder schedule but it's not like SMU played a WAC schedule in those days.

Sounds eerily like how FSU is getting treated these days. I don't buy the FSU hype as the #1 team, but until they lose I have a hard time saying Alabama or Oregon or TCU is better.

On the other hand, I'm rooting for chaos with FSU somehow getting shut out of the playoff despite being undefeated, defending champs and a P5 conference champion. That would be something.

[ojaipony]

Is the reason that the Big12 does not have a title game because of number of schools? If they need one more, I have a suggestion (give us about 2 more years though).

[PonyFan32]

I am still having trouble with the fact only one team in the country has not lost a game since 2012 and they keep dropping each week instead of being #1.

Do you think FSU is the best team in the country?

Until someone can beat them yes. Your school could not make it through the season undefeated. Alabama could not. Neither could Oregon. FSU has done it 2 years in a row ( so far). Their schedule has not been patsies although granted not SEC Westish. They may well get beat this week and that would settle somewhat. Right now I rate them FSU, Alabama, Oregon, Baylor, TCU, Arizona, OSU.

But they do not let me in the room.

I cannot believe your long and storied history as Chair of the WDNWHA committee did not get you serious consideration for membership on the playoff committee. Somebody write their congressman!

[stc9]

Is there any chance Winston's disciplinary hearing is resolved before the committee has to make a final decision? If he is suspended, do they drop out of the stop 4?

The talk coming out of Tally is that it should be wrapped up today or tomorrow. I am willing to guarantee that no announcement will be made before Monday. They school will do nothing to endanger its playoff birth.