Baylor game gone?

[SMU Football Blog]

Boy I hope we make the cfp next year.

[sbsmith]

Boy I hope we make the cfp next year.

Me too, or at least the Access Bowl

[Stallion]

You never know
TCU won 4 games last year
I think we got a chance
If Baylor had made a smart scheduling upgrade they would have made it
TCU scheduled Minn. instead of SFA and it was their calling card

[CalallenStang]

You never know
TCU won 4 games last year
I think we got a chance
If Baylor had made a smart scheduling upgrade they would have made it
TCU scheduled Minn. instead of SFA and it was their calling card

TCU also scheduled Samford

[gostangs]

Baylor should have just beaten WVU and it wouldn't have mattered who their OOC wins were.

[WordUpBU]

Fact is that playing regional rivals can give you a 1-2 game spike in attendance it ultimately hurts you more if you start off 1-3 or 0-4 because of it.

Two teams bringing 10k more than a weak foe would ultimately spikes the attendance average around 3.3k over a 6 game season. You can make a case that almost that many didn't show up after the rough starts the last two years that might have otherwise. At the very least it killed momentum.

People citing attendance as a reason to schedule all P5/UNT noncon are wanting a quick fix to the butts in seats issue. The only long term fix is improving the program. Attendance is more about the home team than who you play. BU the last 2-3 years averaged more against weak traveling opponents than they did in the old days against Ut, OU, Nebraska, Tech, OSU, etc. The reason is simple: people are energized to see the great product for the home team even if it's against Northwestern state or Wofford.

It's going to take years to change it and 10 win seasons. Getting blown up twice in September is counter productive to that.

[footballdad]

Fact is that playing regional rivals can give you a 1-2 game spike in attendance it ultimately hurts you more if you start off 1-3 or 0-4 because of it.

Two teams bringing 10k more than a weak foe would ultimately spikes the attendance average around 3.3k over a 6 game season. You can make a case that almost that many didn't show up after the rough starts the last two years that might have otherwise. At the very least it killed momentum.

People citing attendance as a reason to schedule all P5/UNT noncon are wanting a quick fix to the butts in seats issue. The only long term fix is improving the program. Attendance is more about the home team than who you play. BU the last 2-3 years averaged more against weak traveling opponents than they did in the old days against Ut, OU, Nebraska, Tech, OSU, etc. The reason is simple: people are energized to see the great product for the home team even if it's against Northwestern state or Wofford.

It's going to take years to change it and 10 win seasons. Getting blown up twice in September is counter productive to that.

Sounds way too logical for the 'gotta play teams that people care about' crowd.

[peruna81]

Baylor should have just beaten WVU and it wouldn't have mattered who their OOC wins were.

well that, and Baylor taking a dump in their own chili during the Cotton Bowl...again....

[Stallion]

Fact is that playing regional rivals can give you a 1-2 game spike in attendance it ultimately hurts you more if you start off 1-3 or 0-4 because of it.

Two teams bringing 10k more than a weak foe would ultimately spikes the attendance average around 3.3k over a 6 game season. You can make a case that almost that many didn't show up after the rough starts the last two years that might have otherwise. At the very least it killed momentum.

People citing attendance as a reason to schedule all P5/UNT noncon are wanting a quick fix to the butts in seats issue. The only long term fix is improving the program. Attendance is more about the home team than who you play. BU the last 2-3 years averaged more against weak traveling opponents than they did in the old days against Ut, OU, Nebraska, Tech, OSU, etc. The reason is simple: people are energized to see the great product for the home team even if it's against Northwestern state or Wofford.

It's going to take years to change it and 10 win seasons. Getting blown up twice in September is counter productive to that.

Sounds way too logical for the 'gotta play teams that people care about' crowd.

except that for SMU this statement ("Attendance is more about the home team than who you play") is in fact demonstratively wrong. A high percentage of this year's attendance was from A&M and TCU fans and from ticket plans bought by their fans or for those particular games. The rest of the games probably averaged 10,000 in actual butts in seats. Again too many fans talking about the way things are done at TCU, Baylor or "back home" and not understanding SMU's own unique attendance issues. The outsiders and newcomers almost ALWAYS miss the point. We don't play Baylor's schedule-we don't play TCU's schedule and we don't play the schedule of the team "back home". You've got to solve SMU's attendance problems not that other school's problem. Here we got guys who are agreeing about a solution despite the fact neither really understands SMU from a long term perspective. The problem is SMU is a small private school playing in a conference filled with the teams that SMU fans and Dallas public could care less about

[Mustangs_Maroons]

Then what is your solutionbc we can't change that we're a small private school (the same as tcu) and we can't change the teams in our comference as of now and so were stuck with this in the short term until we show we can play wth the big boys and have the attendance reflect out following??

If we were putti g up 70 pts a game and were the greatest show on turf I think the stadium would be packed regardless if we played Cincinnati and not UT. We need butts in the seats that follow smu. You out us in the b12 comference with jones team last year most of the seats will not be red and blue. So changing conferences does nothing for the smu football program until we get a strong marketable product on the damn field on a consistent basis.

If not then there is no solution bc this is all just circular and might as well give up now.

[WordUpBU]

Fact is that playing regional rivals can give you a 1-2 game spike in attendance it ultimately hurts you more if you start off 1-3 or 0-4 because of it.

Two teams bringing 10k more than a weak foe would ultimately spikes the attendance average around 3.3k over a 6 game season. You can make a case that almost that many didn't show up after the rough starts the last two years that might have otherwise. At the very least it killed momentum.

People citing attendance as a reason to schedule all P5/UNT noncon are wanting a quick fix to the butts in seats issue. The only long term fix is improving the program. Attendance is more about the home team than who you play. BU the last 2-3 years averaged more against weak traveling opponents than they did in the old days against Ut, OU, Nebraska, Tech, OSU, etc. The reason is simple: people are energized to see the great product for the home team even if it's against Northwestern state or Wofford.

It's going to take years to change it and 10 win seasons. Getting blown up twice in September is counter productive to that.

Sounds way too logical for the 'gotta play teams that people care about' crowd.

except that for SMU this statement ("Attendance is more about the home team than who you play") is in fact demonstratively wrong. A high percentage of this year's attendance was from A&M and TCU fans and from ticket plans bought by their fans or for those particular games. The rest of the games probably averaged 10,000 in actual butts in seats.

Sigh...

Ok I will amend my statement:

Long term sustainable attendance has more to do with the home team. Frankly I don't care how many an opposing school brings. The goal with attendance is to increase your own crowd not borrow somebody else two games a year. The goal is to build it so that attendance is mostly level when the opponent is much different.

Again too many fans talking about the way things are done at TCU, Baylor or "back home" and not understanding SMU's own unique attendance issues. The outsiders and newcomers almost ALWAYS miss the point. We don't play Baylor's schedule-we don't play TCU's schedule and we don't play the schedule of the team "back home". You've got to solve SMU's attendance problems not that other school's problem. Here we got guys who are agreeing about a solution despite the fact neither really understands SMU from a long term perspective. The problem is SMU is a small private school playing in a conference filled with the teams that SMU fans and Dallas public could care less about

I get the schedule is a limiting factor, however it makes my point stronger and here is why:

Baylor played FOR YEARS with home games against UT, OU, ATM, OSU, Tech, and Nebraska on the schedule and while those games would spike the season average a bit the number of Baylor fans in the stands did not noticeably increase. Even with the BEST POSSIBLE OPPONENTS it didn't matter. Games vs TCU, UNT, Rice, and SMU were also mixed in! Without improving the product the baseline support won't budge at all and clearly did not despite a couple "we almost got a bowl" seasons.

Compare to the following games:
BU-KU
BU-NSU
BU-ISU 2013
BU-WV 2013
BU-Wofford 2013
BU-SHSU 2012
BU-Rice 2011

The weaker opponents outdrew what BU had for the bigger opponents in the dark years. It's not the sexy opponents that led to the increase in home team support, it's on field success for the home squad.

Same pattern is observable with TCU despite CUSA and MWC nobodies on the schedule for 90% of the games.

So does BU play a sexier schedule than SMU? Sure. Is that the most relevant point? No, not if the weaker games still sell out as well or better than the big fish. If it was about the opponent we'd be seeing wild swings of attendance from big games to small games.

You want to build a following? You build it by stacking up the W column not by taking a rebuilding project up against top 25 foes 3-4 times in September where Vegas thinks you will finish with at least 2-3 losses. The goal is to have people say "How good is this unbeaten team?" Not to have them say "Well they got buzz sawed four times but kept it close for a half". Eventually when the team turns the corner it will make sense to schedule up but until then it's tough to build crowds or recruiting classes starting with 2-3 losses in the time of the season where fans/recruits are most optimistic.

Wins are needed. Put the odds in your favor.

Nobody is arguing that one season of clubbing weak noncon foes is going to cause dallas to sell out ford but over time building good records & recruiting classes will slowly turn it around.

Question for you:
Has there been ANY noticeable increase in SMU fan support for the remainder of the season after playing these games? Any evidence at all?

[sbsmith]

If we were putti g up 70 pts a game and were the greatest show on turf I think the stadium would be packed regardless if we played Cincinnati and not UT.

Fine let's put up 70 pts a game and see if Ford will be packed or not

[Stallion]

TCU AD Chris del Conte apparently told a TCU gathering that there are NO plans to end the SMU/TCU rivalry according to a thread on Frog Forum

[sbsmith]

TCU AD Chris del Conte apparently told a TCU gathering that there are plans to end the SMU/TCU rivalry according to a thread on Frog Forum

Makes sense from their point of view. Our resident schedule wimps will love this development.

[Stallion]

Sorry-NO PLANS-I forgot the No