NCAA proving their integrity

[Digetydog]

Apparently, the rules only apply to USC, Miami and SMU.

Big State Schools - not so much +> tax dollars.

[peruna81]

NCAA=integrity
Jumbo=shrimp

[Stallion]

The fact is that the NCAA probably overstepped its own authority by penalizing criminal conduct under its bylaws relating fair competition. Whether you guys like it or not the Bylaws never contemplated this type of enforcement action. Ordering a State institution to pay a $60 Million dollar penalty is also legally questionable as the case said

[PoconoPony]

The fact is that the NCAA probably overstepped its own authority by penalizing criminal conduct under its bylaws relating fair competition. Whetheru guys like it or not the Bylaws never contemplated this type of enforcement action. Ordering a State institution to pay a $60 Million dollar penalty is also legally questionable as the case said

I have a very different take on the PSU scandal. Living here in PA and reading most of the accounts, knowing some members of the Board and following the legal issues of the entirety of the Sandusky affair; I cannot really understand why the football team was made the scape goat for the entire situation. It was the PSU Board of Trustees who granted Sandusky and the charity full access to PSU facilities, Paterno in effect had fired Sandusky in 1997 after the first hint of problems and never again spoke to Sandusky with their friendship ended, Paterno immediately called a meeting with PSU AD and PSU official responsible for administration, security and law enforcement on the campus and had his coach tell in his own words what had happened, AD and official totally failed to report the situation advising the President and hiding the situation from the Board, information was withheld from local law enforcement causing delay of more than 3 years as they did not have probable cause to take action on initial non-PSU related allegations, Paterno and football team blamed for scandal when they had nothing to do with situation. This was a matter that demonstrated total lack of institutional control with the AD, President and other responsible PSU official concealing the situation to protect the pristine reputation of the university. In fact, the university had purposely failed to comply with 10 year old Federal law and report all criminal violations occurring on campus despite 2 formal requests by campus police to comply with Federal law. This was to protect the image of PSU to insure parents their kids were very safe at PSU. Yes, the NCAA should have fined the university for total disregard and lack of institutional control; however, this was caused by the direct failure of the AD, President and administrative official to conceal and not perform their jobs and with hold information to the Board and law enforcement officials. I could probably make a strong case that this was not an NCAA issue at any point and that the NCAA was totally beyond their authority to sanction a university over a law enforcement issue. Paterno's only crime was his failure to constantly pressure his chain of command, President and Board as to the status of actions taken by the university and/or go rogue. Paterno was simply a football coach and cared very little about the job performance of persons not involved with his football team.

[smusic 00]

So in the end it will all just go away cause they got the 'real' bad guy and everyone else was an innocent bystander and victim of his misbehavior.

[Stallion]

The fact is that the NCAA should get out of the business of punishing criminal conduct which isn't specifically prohibited in NCAA Bylaws. The reason is that all defendants have 5th Amendment privileges to refuse to testify when criminal prosecution is possible so their investigations will largely be unproductive, without subpoena power and DAs and Attorney Generals don't want them interfering with their own investigations. General criminal matters take precedence over civil matters and the civil matters are abated. This is almost universally true in the Courts. NCAA should conduct preliminary review to determine whether there is sufficient information to suspend a coach or player but then abate proceedings pending results of criminal proceedings

[Puckhead48E]

The fact is that the NCAA probably overstepped its own authority by penalizing criminal conduct under its bylaws relating fair competition. Whetheru guys like it or not the Bylaws never contemplated this type of enforcement action. Ordering a State institution to pay a $60 Million dollar penalty is also legally questionable as the case said

I have a very different take on the PSU scandal. Living here in PA and reading most of the accounts, knowing some members of the Board and following the legal issues of the entirety of the Sandusky affair; I cannot really understand why the football team was made the scape goat for the entire situation. It was the PSU Board of Trustees who granted Sandusky and the charity full access to PSU facilities, Paterno in effect had fired Sandusky in 1997 after the first hint of problems and never again spoke to Sandusky with their friendship ended, Paterno immediately called a meeting with PSU AD and PSU official responsible for administration, security and law enforcement on the campus and had his coach tell in his own words what had happened, AD and official totally failed to report the situation advising the President and hiding the situation from the Board, information was withheld from local law enforcement causing delay of more than 3 years as they did not have probable cause to take action on initial non-PSU related allegations, Paterno and football team blamed for scandal when they had nothing to do with situation. This was a matter that demonstrated total lack of institutional control with the AD, President and other responsible PSU official concealing the situation to protect the pristine reputation of the university. In fact, the university had purposely failed to comply with 10 year old Federal law and report all criminal violations occurring on campus despite 2 formal requests by campus police to comply with Federal law. This was to protect the image of PSU to insure parents their kids were very safe at PSU. Yes, the NCAA should have fined the university for total disregard and lack of institutional control; however, this was caused by the direct failure of the AD, President and administrative official to conceal and not perform their jobs and with hold information to the Board and law enforcement officials. I could probably make a strong case that this was not an NCAA issue at any point and that the NCAA was totally beyond their authority to sanction a university over a law enforcement issue. Paterno's only crime was his failure to constantly pressure his chain of command, President and Board as to the status of actions taken by the university and/or go rogue. Paterno was simply a football coach and cared very little about the job performance of persons not involved with his football team.

He was allowed to continue to use football facilities after initial reports. While the true punishment should have been the removal of all PSU athletic programs from all NCAA post-season participation for 2 years and loss of a percentage of scholarships from each sport, not just a concentration on football, the entire program was complicit in the activities of the administration. The religion that is PSU here in PA results in a collective blindness to actual facts regarding this issue, as well as anything else even remotely related to PSU.

[CBpony]

Puckhead nailed it

[stc9]

He was allowed to continue to use football facilities after initial reports. While the true punishment should have been the removal of all PSU athletic programs from all NCAA post-season participation for 2 years and loss of a percentage of scholarships from each sport, not just a concentration on football, the entire program was complicit in the activities of the administration. The religion that is PSU here in PA results in a collective blindness to actual facts regarding this issue, as well as anything else even remotely related to PSU.

Part of Jerry Sandusky's retirement package from the University was the use of an office in the old football building for him and his charity, plus use of the football facilities. This was a contractual obligation for Ped State. The school couldn't remove him from campus without providing a reason and due process. If they provided a reason then they would have exposed their liability/culpability for covering up his crimes. Once the decision was made to hide on going criminal activity, their only real hope was that he never get caught by an outside agency. The only good thing about the entire episode is that Jerry is now getting traded around the cell block and knows first hand how his victims felt.

[Puckhead48E]

He was allowed to continue to use football facilities after initial reports. While the true punishment should have been the removal of all PSU athletic programs from all NCAA post-season participation for 2 years and loss of a percentage of scholarships from each sport, not just a concentration on football, the entire program was complicit in the activities of the administration. The religion that is PSU here in PA results in a collective blindness to actual facts regarding this issue, as well as anything else even remotely related to PSU.

Part of Jerry Sandusky's retirement package from the University was the use of an office in the old football building for him and his charity, plus use of the football facilities. This was a contractual obligation for Ped State. The school couldn't remove him from campus without providing a reason and due process. If they provided a reason then they would have exposed their liability/culpability for covering up his crimes. Once the decision was made to hide on going criminal activity, their only real hope was that he never get caught by an outside agency. The only good thing about the entire episode is that Jerry is now getting traded around the cell block and knows first hand how his victims felt.

The alarm/detector is going off so loud, I am almost deaf from the sound. Unless you are just blowing large voluminous clouds of [deleted] out of your anus, then this is some choice cut. Part of the retirement package negotiated by the university allowed for a child molester to continue to use university property for an office and football facilities for his charity. He was terminated because the school was notified of his "activities" by Paterno...then they told Paterno to allow him to use Joe's football facilities for "charity" activities and this paragon of morality and ethics went for it? Or are we supposed to believe that Paterno didn't know his facilities were being used for Sandusky's charity? The guy who claims he knew how every player was doing in class and how everything operated in his program to ensure it was above board and up to his status...and who reported that his assistant coach was caught molesting a boy brought to the school under the guise of his charity, allowed that same guy to use that same charity on PSU football property? Or are we to believe that Paterno was just a paper suit and had no control or power or knowledge of football operations at the school? Either way...and logic dictates how that went and what the metrics were that made the decision, the university knowingly exposed the students and school employees to a suspected child molester (remember, they canned him with gracious benefits to ensure there was no blowback on their program), the enabled a child molester by FACILITATING his access to state property and giving him keys to taxpayer property knowing what he has previously used his "charity" for. If what is stated above is true, the liability the university administrators toyed with by allowing him access to property with the understanding that it was for use by his charity to bring underaged boys on campus...and use a private room and facilities that the administration provided at taxpayer expense...amazing. Only at the big state U can this level of corruption be carried out with what amounted to a slap in the wrist resulting from the final disclosure. Other schools and other states have been corrupt...but I don't recall anything like this outside of the church priest scandals, and we know the results of that. What is truly shocking is that the state of PA now acts like they were the one abused by the system.

[stc9]

Puckhead,

If it were up to me a vote would have been put to the University Presidents at every member school for expulsion from the NCAA.

We are looking at this from two different time lines. I don't remember exactly how it all fell out since it has been so long since I followed this. What I remember of it is:

1) Jerry Sandusky was informed that he was not going to succeed Joe Pa. He decides to retire from coaching and focus on his charity work.

2) He negotiates his retirement package with the school regarding office space for his charity. This office space was in the "old" football building, that was separate from the building the active coaching staff used.

3) SEVERAL YEARS LATER, a grad assistant walks into the locker room and catches Sandusky with a kid in the shower. There was also a report that there was a janitor who also witnessed this event.

4) The grad assistant doesn't know what to do so calls his Dad for advice. Dad informs son to go to Joe Pa. Kid calls Joe Pa and goes to his house the next day. He lays out what he saw to Joe Pa.

5) Joe Pa has a meeting with the AD and two other VPs from the school. One of which is in charge of the campus police. He tells them what the grad student told him. At this point, the AD and two VPs willfully break the law because they don't report the crime to law enforcement.

6) Sometime later Sandusky is caught in a compromising position at a local High School while "teaching" wrestling. The school immediately bans him from the campus and informs the local police.

7) The police start a criminal investigation that brings forward the names of victims and locations. Ped State's complicity/cover up becomes known.

Joe Pa and Grad assistant testify before a grand jury that leads to Sandusky indictment.

9) The Board of Directors for Ped State is brought into an emergency conference call. They decide to terminate Joe Pa.

There was reports of Sandusky being investigated before he retired that didn't amount to criminal charges. Did this lead to expediting his retirement? Did this lead to him not being named Joe's successor? Don't know. Remember that his victims came from troubled homes and didn't have a lot of credibility with law enforcement.

Sandusky's charity was immensely powerful politically in PA. Board members included Fortune 500 execs, State Senators and Judges. After no criminal charges were brought in the first investigation, Ped State might not have had a choice in negotiating access upon his retirement.

Joe Pa was the single most influential or powerful man on that campus. For example, he got all of the football players removed from the school's discipline system. If a football player broke the campus code of conduct, they were turned over to Joe instead of the normal disciplinary committee. Another example is that Joe's legend is still so influential that the school is fighting to get his records reinstated. So how could he see Sandusky on campus with other kids and not pitch a fit or have something done? I don't know or maybe Joe didn't want to know.

The whole thing is a sick tragedy. In my mind it is made worse by Ped State also playing the role of victim for their punishment.

[Puckhead48E]

Producer of Pony Excess tweeted tonight he may look into doing a documentary on PSU and the NCAA...look into what happened, what the timeline actually was, and how the past several years has truly shown how little integrity the NCAA has. I would definitely pay to see that. As I mentioned...I don't think for a second that it is just a coincidence that the SMU allegations are posted the same day JoPa gets his wins back.

[JoeKidd]

Why would we get any sanctions for basketball? Last I checked, Mudiay went to China and Shake chose SMU because he wanted to learn from LB and wants to be an NBA exec. MK set out the first 10 games due to academic eligibility problems. It seems to me we are the epitome of a squeaky clean program.

Love the Avatar. I sure hope we can win this appeal, although doesn't sounds likely.

[Greenwich Pony]

I can understand the argument that the NCAA overstepped their bounds for punishment of criminal behavior at Penn State. So set Sandusky aside for a moment. It is about unfair competitive advantage, though it has been quietly denied. The administrators let this happen because they did not want to take the bad PR and recruiting hit to the program. Because of that decision, Penn State continued to be a full member of the Big Ten, continued to rake in a huge amount of football money, which helped keep the team competitive and adds to the competitive of the rest of the department through coaching salaries, new facilities, recruiting budgets, etc., to an average tune of $50-60 million a year. Would the scandal have taken all that away? No, but it would certainly have made a dent. So what the NCAA is saying is that to allow this sort of vile, abhorrent behavior on the part of an institution is acceptable and in the long run in an institution's financial interest. That the NCAA and it's member institutions can't seem to set their moral compass to support basic humanity, and are unwilling to punish one of their own for decades (and millions of dollars) of unfair financial support, then how can it enforce anything? Add the situation at UNC, and that alone should basically put the NCAA out of the enforcement business.

[couch 'em]

The chapters in The Pony Trap on the NCAA are getting more credible