Mike Cavan

[PonySnob]

"Our athletic director has said he's seen enough, well I've had enough!"


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[1983 Cotton Bowl]

Nice. As I recall, that quote came from the on-field interview right after a season-ending loss to UNC-Chapel Hill. The funny thing is that we scheduled ACC schools back then, including UNC and a home and home with NC State (off the top of my head). Haven't seen an ACC school on the schedule for years. Kind of wish we would do that again. My wife is from NC and I have in-laws scattered throughout the area from Atlanta, GA to Richmond, VA. So I'm biased.

And I tend to agree with Stallion's point. Things didn't work out for Cavan at SMU. . .but then again, things didn't work out for anyone else either during the "era of suckage".

And yes, Marcus Mosely was the 5-star guy I was thinking of.

[ponyboy]

It's a lot of fun throwing former coaches under the proverbial bus. The time will come when everybody's doing the same thing to Chad Morris and Larry Brown.

[Mustang75]

Rhyner spent all of his time making fun of Cavan and SMU.

Was that the same Rhyner that was at The Zoo in the early 80s?

[Nacho]

It's a lot of fun throwing former coaches under the proverbial bus. The time will come when everybody's doing the same thing to Chad Morris and Larry Brown.

there are very few coaches at smu whot deserve to be thrown under the bus as you suggest. cavan and bennett are the exceptions. each was appalling bad at his job. gregg and rosssley shouldn't be lumped in with them. june is on a pedestal all by himself. a one of a kind disaster.
larry no matter what transpires in the future will always be a favorite of mine.
chad is off to a great start.
thanks for overreacting once again pb.

[Peruna_Ate_My_Rolex]

Rhyner spent all of his time making fun of Cavan and SMU.

Was that the same Rhyner that was at The Zoo in the early 80s?

Yes

[Stallion]

No Gregg and Rossley were failures just as much as Cavan and Bennett. Both were especially bad in recruiting and in picking young aggressive recruiting staff. That is part of Coaching. These guys were recruiting to a SWC so they did have some advantages. Gregg was lost in college football-didn't understand how to build a quality program. Both get Fs for sitting back and being Kenneth Pye's lap dogs even after they left. Forrest Gregg in particular as an alumnus who then became AD should have sat little Kenneth Pye down and told him exactly how he was screwing up the program and explaining it to the alumni. He owed us that. He could have saved us at least a decade and a half of agony but being honest with our ridiculous football incompetent alumni fanbase. He never said a damn thing. He more than any was the cover-excuse for all the Red and Blue pom-pom waiving Mustang Club back slappers at least the first decade. WORSE than Eric Dickerson and Craig James. He let Ken Pye get away with this crap and he is responsible for much of it since he NEVER publicly opened his mouth. Yes I'm still PISSED at those who created the program to fail without being honest to our fan base for almost 2 decades. Forrest Gregg was right in the thick of the problem-all he built was the worst program in the Country. He should have publically quit-he didn't save SMU football-he was willingly helping bury it.

[PonyTime]

No Gregg and Rossley were failures just as much as Cavan and Bennett. Both were especially bad in recruiting and in picking young aggressive recruiting staff. That is part of Coaching. These guys were recruiting to a SWC so they did have some advantages. Gregg was lost in college football-didn't understand how to build a quality program. Both get Fs for sitting back and being Kenneth Pye's lap dogs even after they left. Forrest Gregg in particular as an alumnus who then became AD should have sat little Kenneth Pye down and told him exactly how he was screwing up the program and explaining it to the alumni. He owed us that. He could have saved us at least a decade and a half of agony but being honest with our ridiculous football incompetent alumni fanbase. He never said a damn thing. He more than any was the cover-excuse for all the Red and Blue pom-pom waiving Mustang Club back slappers at least the first decade. WORSE than Eric Dickerson and Craig James. He let Ken Pye get away with this crap and he is responsible for much of it since he NEVER publicly opened his mouth. Yes I'm still [deleted] at those who created the program to fail without being honest to our fan base for almost 2 decades. Forrest Gregg was right in the thick of the problem-all he built was the worst program in the Country. He should have publically quit-he didn't save SMU football-he was willingly helping bury it.

Wow - I did not arrive on the scene until Rossley was HC (Gregg was AD). But I had never heard anyone call out Gregg in this way. I kind of thought of him as the figurehead who shook hands and really had no idea of what he was doing or what was going on around him - so this does not surprise me. Guess if someone had to step up at that time it had to be Gregg - and if he didn't, you can call him out on it. But why didn't the top alums step up (the Hunts and others who were in a position of influence)? Know some of the alums were "banished" from association - But I am sure there were others who could have done something had they wanted to...Was AK Pye really that powerful that he did not have to answer to the top 20 donors?

Again - I don't know what the environment was like with the Alumni base at that time.

[Nacho]

gregg could not have done anything differently. pye was ruling with an iron fist. the football team was under his control. gregg could have quit but they would have brought in someone else or maybe that would have given them the excuese to go ahead and do away with it which is exactly what pye wanted to do. he did not want football. he was in charge, not gregg. you know the idiotic working conditions as well as i do. no coach could have succeeded under the pye model. not feasable. rosseley was operating under the same stupid conditions. knute rockne could not have won at smu. only now are we supposedly on a level playing field. june was but you couldn't tell it since it was not his objective to win the last three years.

[Digetydog]

No Gregg and Rossley were failures just as much as Cavan and Bennett. Both were especially bad in recruiting and in picking young aggressive recruiting staff. That is part of Coaching. These guys were recruiting to a SWC so they did have some advantages. Gregg was lost in college football-didn't understand how to build a quality program. Both get Fs for sitting back and being Kenneth Pye's lap dogs even after they left. Forrest Gregg in particular as an alumnus who then became AD should have sat little Kenneth Pye down and told him exactly how he was screwing up the program and explaining it to the alumni. He owed us that. He could have saved us at least a decade and a half of agony but being honest with our ridiculous football incompetent alumni fanbase. He never said a damn thing. He more than any was the cover-excuse for all the Red and Blue pom-pom waiving Mustang Club back slappers at least the first decade. WORSE than Eric Dickerson and Craig James. He let Ken Pye get away with this crap and he is responsible for much of it since he NEVER publicly opened his mouth. Yes I'm still [deleted] at those who created the program to fail without being honest to our fan base for almost 2 decades. Forrest Gregg was right in the thick of the problem-all he built was the worst program in the Country. He should have publically quit-he didn't save SMU football-he was willingly helping bury it.

While they certainly made mistakes, they were working in an incredibly bad situation.

Gregg, before he got to SMU, proved that he was a good NFL coach. Remember, at SMU , he never coached a team with a full roster of seniors. As an AD, he didn't do a great job, but he served a critical role: Pye didn't dare move to kill the program with him in place.

Rossley: like all post DP SMU HC's, he didn't get the job done. BUT, after leaving, he had some success at the NFL and at TAMU.

Bennett: both before and after SMU, he managed to get DC jobs at quality programs.

Cavan: before SMU he had a ??? coaching career. After SMU, he couldn't get hired coaching a JV HS team in Georgia.

[CalallenStang]

It's a lot of fun throwing former coaches under the proverbial bus. The time will come when everybody's doing the same thing to Chad Morris and Larry Brown.

You're right, he went 6-5 with Rossley's players. Build him a statue

[stc9]

I was a student when Rossley was there. As I recall, Pye had a mandate from the faculty, fairly strong student support (though it was waning) and booster board members were trying to weather the storm. Those board members still had enough juice to prevent the most dastardly of Pye's plans, but not much else. I obviously wasn't invited into those meetings, that was just the talk around campus.

There was another story circulating around campus at the time and I hope someone on here can verify/dispute it. Alumni/outside donations really dried up for several years immediately after the DP. In order to balance the operating budget, the school had to invade endowment principle. Does anyone know if this is true?

[SoCal_Pony]

FWIW, I also share the same opinion on Forrest Gregg.

HOF Player, Vince calls him the best he's ever coached, Super Bowl HC, highly decorated and highly ethical, but most importantly, AN ALUMNI.

He could have and should have used his enormous weight to state the obvious. The model by which we were operating was doomed for failure. He didn't and it cost us. He more than anyone else should have been vocal.

As much as I despise tiki, I truly believe (and have for many many years...now decades) that Forrest Gregg, a true great one, hurt our program more than anyone else within the athletic department post-DP.

[SoCal_Pony]

It's a lot of fun throwing former coaches under the proverbial bus. The time will come when everybody's doing the same thing to Chad Morris and Larry Brown.

Outside of tiki, I can't think of a single coach, BB or FB, who left with 80%+ on PFs accusing them of being a lazy [deleted], with some openly wondering if they deliberately sabotaged our program.

We've had some bad game-day coaches, Doh, Tubbs and PB come to mind. All I felt represented our school well and almost all PFs wished them only the best in their future endeavors, I know I certainly have.

Agree with Nacho, another overreaction on your part pb.

[ponyboy]

This very thread was created with the intention of throwing Cavan under the bus. And we'll remember your post in a few years when the prophecy comes true. We love to eat our own on here.