PB vs. Frank Beamer

[SoCal_Pony]

Comparing PB to Frank Beamer just because both had losing records is like the idiotic posts some make on this board who justify us recruiting a 5’11” qb and saying…’hey, Doug Flutie was short and look what happened’. Your argument had better be more compelling than that sunshiners.

Problem I see with PB is that he has lost his recruiting momentum…not good….he better recapture it this year or we are in big trouble.

And for the record….Frank Beamer’s record his first 4 years at VA Tech was…2-9, 3-8, 6-4-1 and 6-5 (6-5 season included 3 victories over bowl teams and a 6-3 loss to eventual national champion GA Tech) ….hardly PB stuff.

[PonyGirl]

Didn't the guy at Iowa State have a horrible record for his first several years? He's turned out OK.

[Hoop Fan]

well, this idiot would say a couple things to that. ESPN profiled Beamer before their Miami game the other day, and made the point about the tremendous pressure to fire Beamer when the honeymoon period ended. They didnt and the rest is history. Hardly an invalid example of coaches turning around programs. If its good enough for ESPN, its good enough for me to parrot. The second thing is that SMU is not exactly Va Tech and that is no reflection on Bennett. We have much less support, much more cynicism and Va Tech never had a recruiting obstacle of any kind much less the crap Bennett faced when he got here and still faces to some extent. I guess if it takes a mere mortal 4 years at Va Tech, it probably should take 6 or 7 years at SMU starting from ground zero. Bennett isnt gods gift to coaching, I disagree with him plenty (Baylor 4th down call, Chris Phillips, playing young players more, offensive scheme some days), but he aint our problem either.

[KnuckleStang]

It actually took 7 years at Tech. Don't forget, Beamer went 2-9-1 his sixth season. By any standard of logic, it should take even longer than that at a place like SMU.

[SoCal_Pony]

You guys crack me up or are simply crack smokers…haven’t decided yet

In Frank Beamer’s 3rd season he defeated West Virginia, a team that played in the Gator Bowl and NC State, another bowl team. In his fourth season he defeated 3 bowl teams including a Virginia team that lost 22-23 to Tennessee in the Sugar Bowl. That same season he lost to eventual National Champion GA Tech 6-3 on the road. In his 5th season he went 5-6, including competitive losses to bowl-bound OU and FL State teams. Yes he had a down year his 6th season, but his potential was already established.

Contrast that to PB. He has been here 4 years. He has won 9 games. The Saragin rankings of those teams are as follows: #105 LA Tech, #170 UTEP, #166 Tulsa, #142 SJS, #105 Tulsa, #118 Nevada, #87 UAB, #159 Rice…and yes #23 TCU...which compared to his other victories seems more a fluke than anything else to me at this point.

So to post that because someone has a down year his 6th season at a school is equivalent to PB’s situation here at SMU is naive and IMO a bad argument.

Look, I understand the obstacles PB faces and am sympathetic to them…I also don’t believe firing him will necessarily change our plight….but please, no Beamer and PB comparisons yet…PB hasn’t earned it.

[RGV Pony]

Actually I think perhaps a more fair comparison would be to Northwestern. It effectively was/has been turned around twice, first by Barnett and then the current coach.

To wit:
Barnett:
1992 3-8
1993 2-9
1994 3-7-1
1995 10-2 Big Ten champs & Rose Bowl
1996 9-3

and then (Barnett/Walker)
1997 5-7
1998 3-9
1999 3-8
2000 8-4

Randy Walker overall
1999 3-8
2000 8-4
2001 4-7
2002 3-9
2003 6-7
and this year contending for the league title.

I think it's been a combination of administration and coaching...They overcame some adversity at the end of Barnett's regime. What NW has that SMU lacks more than anything, I think, is resiliency. One could make the argument that NW is at more of a disadvantage to being successful than SMU..crappy stadium, crappy weather, academics, overmatched by bigger conference powers, huge city with plenty of other things going on. Strangely, I look at Bennett...and I look at Randy Walker, and call me crazy but I think all other things equal I'd rather have Bennett. Walker looks like a Gary Patterson starter kit.

[PK]

"Walker looks like a Gary Patterson starter kit."
Now that was truly funny.

[Hoop Fan]

You guys crack me up or are simply crack smokers…haven’t decided yet

In Frank Beamer’s 3rd season he defeated West Virginia, a team that played in the Gator Bowl and NC State, another bowl team. In his fourth season he defeated 3 bowl teams including a Virginia team that lost 22-23 to Tennessee in the Sugar Bowl. That same season he lost to eventual National Champion GA Tech 6-3 on the road. In his 5th season he went 5-6, including competitive losses to bowl-bound OU and FL State teams. Yes he had a down year his 6th season, but his potential was already established.

Contrast that to PB. He has been here 4 years. He has won 9 games. The Saragin rankings of those teams are as follows: #105 LA Tech, #170 UTEP, #166 Tulsa, #142 SJS, #105 Tulsa, #118 Nevada, #87 UAB, #159 Rice…and yes #23 TCU...which compared to his other victories seems more a fluke than anything else to me at this point.

So to post that because someone has a down year his 6th season at a school is equivalent to PB’s situation here at SMU is naive and IMO a bad argument.

Look, I understand the obstacles PB faces and am sympathetic to them…I also don’t believe firing him will necessarily change our plight….but please, no Beamer and PB comparisons yet…PB hasn’t earned it.

So Cal, you are taking the comparison way too literally, nobody is annointing Bennett as Frank Beamer. You say you understand the obstacles PB faces, but then you turn around and compare the Sagarin ratings of the teams he has beaten against the profiles of the schools Beamer had beaten or played close. That might be valid if Va Tech was comparable to SMU at all. The situations are not even roughly equivalent. That was my point about VA Tech being a big state school, with good attendance and no legacy of recruiting restrictions. Its easy to say PB should win in CUSA because the schools lack tradition, but that ignores the reality of how bad we were when he took over. Bennett is not Beamer, SMU is not Va Tech. It is merely an example of a point in a coaches tenure where the fans and alums resoundingly wanted to fry the guy, but today love him. Dont make it anything more than that. I gotta get back to my crack cocaine now.

[SoCal_Pony]

Actually I think perhaps a more fair comparison would be to Northwestern.

RGV,

During their first 4 seasons at Northwestern, both Barnett and Walker won twice as many games as PB...both compteted for conference championships (Barnett actually won, Walker lost by 1 game) plus both coaches took their teams to Bowl Games...I think you are grasping at straws comparing them to PB.

[Sam I Am]

Va Tech has been in a major BCS conference all along, and SMU has not. That alone affects recruiting and eventual wining records. But PB is not a Beamer any more than a Pinto is a BMW.

[Hoop Fan]

actually Va Tech might have still be an independent when Beamer got there.

[SMU Football Blog]

And there wasn't a BCS when Beamer got there.

And the problem with being in a bcs conference is you have to play bcs conference teams in conference. SMU is not in a bcs conference and is still losing to other schools that are not in BCS conferences. People keep bringing up this point as if it were relevant. Bennett has played 35 games against non-BCS teams and won 9; that is just over 25% against other schools that are also hampered by money and recruiting.

The best comparison for you people trying to prove that Bennett is just about to turn a corner is Northern Illinois. Look it up. It still isn't that great a comparison.

[SoCal_Pony]

Agreed Blog.

There are some 57 BCS schools.

The average Saragin rating of the 9 teams we have defeated over the past 4 years is 120.

So BCS aside, we are not even competing against our peers.

My main point is I do not believe PB has earned the right to be compared to anyone successful, at least not in any serious discussion.

Now if you want to spew sunshine, sure, PB might just very well be the next Bear Bryant….just like I might be the next Warren Buffett.

[abezontar]

Can I buy into your fund?

[KnuckleStang]

So Cal, I'm not sure how my pointing out Beamer's 6th year record (which you conveniently left out of your original statement) is the equivalent of "spouting sunshine," but we agree that you can't compare the two coaches. Difference is, you think it's because Bennett sucks; I say you can't compare them because it sucks to coach at SMU, and it doesn't suck to coach at VT.

Let me put it to you this way: If it took Beamer 7 yrs to turn things around at Tech (7 yrs the entire Hokie nation felt he didn't deserve at the time, incidentally), how many years do you think Beamer would need to make something happen at this God-forsaken school?