Mustang Band ain't what it used to be

[jtstang]

And one time, at band camp,....


By the way, where's the preferred place to stick a piccolo? And now that I think about it, what the f*** IS a piccolo? And no, not that guy that Jimmy Caan played in Brian's Song....

[DiamondM]

I don't think not being able to take criticism or not being able to play loud is about gender (other than the unfortunate fact that many of the women play sax or cymbals or piccolo rather than the naturally louder trumpets, horns, and bones -- something I wish were not the case, but must be in part blamed on band directors, parents, and others at the grade school/junior high/high school level who push girls to play flute and clarinet rather than the brass instruments).

I know several men who attribute their current volume of playing to me and my "encouragement" to get some cajones and blow. And there have been plenty of men/boys in the band in the last 15 years who couldn't blow their way out of a paper bag, and that doesn't have anything to do with "playing down" to female volume -- again a ridiculously illogical conclusion. Just a little story that illustrates that lung power has nothing to do with the "equipment" -- when I was in law school, I played in the band (at Duke) to get into basketball games. At a first round NCAA tournament game, I played tuba -- and was the only one (Duke's band is more about seniority than proper instrumentation come tourney time). After the game the 4 person tuba section from the opposing band sought me out as we were loading the bus to tell me I was their hero because they couldn't believe 1 person could be that loud. That was the Mustang Band in me.

Anyway, same goes for criticism and "hard core" behavior, whatever that means. There are plenty of guys who were whiny, and didn't like to take criticism from a girl or a guy. But sometimes, being "hard core" commitment doesn't necessarily mean there has to be a lot of yelling and screaming. Different people respond to different approaches, and one thing we can all learn, including me, is that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

[abezontar]

I have to agree with DiamondM on this one, there were many guys who couldn't take any criticism and would whine if you ever told them they were out of line or not playing loud enough, or cheering loud enough, or playing the wrong song. It is not a gender specific problem.

[MrMustang1965]

I know several men who attribute their current volume of playing to me and my "encouragement" to get some cajones and blow.

[Spaz]

I think what it boils down to is not that the girls are bringing the band down. When you have a unisex environment (be it male OR female) the focus becomes the music, not anything else. The fact that both sexes are in an environment together brings in a whole new group dynamic, and direts some of the focus off the music.
However, blaming the "condition" of the band on this is [deleted]. Times have change, therefore the way things run have changed. Blaming it on the inclusion of girls is an easy scapegoat. There were plenty of whiney dudes when I was in band. And, for the most part, most of the self-proclaimed "hardcore" bandsmen really just sat around and bitched about how things sucked. Did they attempt to do anything about it? No. A good leader/member of an organization is defined by his actions, not his boasting on how things were better, and he/she happened to be around when it happened.

[DiamondM]

Yeah, taken out of context, it looks pretty bad. By "encouragement" I mean yelling and calling them unflattering names -- the "hard core" band way. I'm *much* more mellow and introspective now.

[couch 'em]

I never said that women, by nature, are the problem, or that all girls are whiney and all guys are not. This is CERTAINLY not the case. I'm talking more about culture than anything. It was my experiance in the band that the girls tend to be less competitive about things like volume and less into that aspect. Perhaps I mean less outspoken? Less likely to push each other. Does this mean that all girls are this way, and all guys are the opposite, again, no, and I never ment to give that impression because it certainly isn't true. Perhaps it was just a function of the specific people who were in the band at my time, but this is how it was. If you want to take "loud" for example, in the all male bone section, all I heard for a long time was louderlouderlouder, meanwhile the female horn section produced such classic statements as "I don't care if nobody can hear me play, I don't like what it sounds like when I play louder". Yes, I'm taking specific cases and applying them to the general, but that is all I have to go on. Also, like Spaz said, it introduces a whole new group dynamic which obviously has a big effect.

To sum up, I am not saying females by nature of being female has degraded the quality of the band. Everyone knows that is not the case. There have been some excellent bandsmen who were female, and there have been some horrible ones who were male. I'm saying that women make up a large part of the band (is it a majority yet?) and they tend to have a certain culture which gets adopted by the band. That culture is different from what the old guys describe. That is my point. I made a poor choice in words when I said "girls are bringing down guys" and I appologize. I did not mean that all guys have attitude X that gets overridden by the female attitude Y.

I can only identify trends and generalities that I noticed when I was there. And that is what I noticed. Again, I am not saying that females are directly responsible for taking the band from the mythical supposed greatness of the all-male band to what it is now. (come to think of it, maybe I should be insulted by this whole thread) Things like scholarships, football, etc etc etc have a far greater effect than sex. But trends in sex do have an effect, at least that I have noticed.

[couch 'em]

Yeah, taken out of context, it looks pretty bad. By "encouragement" I mean yelling and calling them unflattering names -- the "hard core" band way. I'm *much* more mellow and introspective now.

Remind me never to need "encouragement" around you! haha

[White Helmet]

[/quote]I did not mean that all guys have attitude X that gets overridden by the female attitude Y.
[/quote]

hmm wouldn't females usually have XY and men XX?

[couch 'em]

hmm wouldn't females usually have XY and men XX?

Sometimes I wonder if that is the case! Perhaps the Xtc can enlighten us on the use of X and Y.

[DiamondM75]

I personally prefer dos XX with a lime

[mr. pony]

Damn. This thread is going?

I must have hit a nerve. Knew it.

[mr. pony]

I'm not a bitter curmudg-i-call-it.

I just made an observation. And it came to me when watching the band, accompanied by the alumni band at the Rice game, actually make a nice size Diamond M for a change.

It always amazes me when the "tolerant" crowd becomes intolerant.

[Peruna_Ate_My_Rolex]

And one time, at band camp,....


By the way, where's the preferred place to stick a piccolo? And now that I think about it, what the f*** IS a piccolo? And no, not that guy that Jimmy Caan played in Brian's Song....

What about this Piccolo?

Sorry, I could resist. [/list]

[couch 'em]

It always amazes me when the "tolerant" crowd becomes intolerant.

I have very high 'tolerance' thank you!