Keith Frazier

[smusportspage]

Exactly.

[Mustangsabu]

I take your points but to be honest I don't buy it. It doesn't appear to me like we have told the truth (and by that I mean the whole truth) and I am ashamed of the program as a result. I think the sanctions are heavy handed and punish the wrong people but I am appalled at what SMU has done.


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You do realize that all of this was self reported to begin with?

Yes I do, but the fact that it was self-reported is one of the truly idiotic features of this case. There were so many ways that SMU could have protected itself, but they didn't. I can only put it down to either arrogance or incompetence. Either way I cannot fathom how Larry Brown and Rick Hart still have jobs. I love LB but this has brought disgrace to the University. It doesn't matter that the NCAA has made the matter worse, I think this mess has shown (yet again) that the NCAA is a terrible institution that will only continue to wreak havoc if left unchecked. We cheated, or attempted to in this instance and our actions, aside from what the NCAA has chosen to impose due to those actions, were/are dishonest. This is what the country sees. Embarrassment.

[Mustangsabu]

I don't believe a single word out of SMU. I'm sorry. Keith had to pass a class online and was unaware that someone entirely of their own volition chose to complete for his without his knowledge? Am I missing something.

When are we going to admit what happened was cheating?


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I feel like almost everyone I have seen post and the school officials themselves have acknowledged that it was cheating and people just think the punishment did not fit the crime. Who is "we" in your last sentence?

Fair point to some extent but let me rephrase the question, or more correctly approach the issue from a difference standpoint. Do we, the fans/public, believe that the school is telling us the truth about what happened now?

I, for one, do not.

[coloradoStang]

I don't believe a single word out of SMU. I'm sorry. Keith had to pass a class online and was unaware that someone entirely of their own volition chose to complete for his without his knowledge? Am I missing something.

When are we going to admit what happened was cheating?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I feel like almost everyone I have seen post and the school officials themselves have acknowledged that it was cheating and people just think the punishment did not fit the crime. Who is "we" in your last sentence?

Fair point to some extent but let me rephrase the question, or more correctly approach the issue from a difference standpoint. Do we, the fans/public, believe that the school is telling us the truth about what happened now?

I, for one, do not.

Do you really want to know the truth? What if it is a lot worse than what we know? I don't know what the truth is but I'm just saying if it worse I hope no one especially the ncaa knows about it.

[Rebel10]

I don't believe a single word out of SMU. I'm sorry. Keith had to pass a class online and was unaware that someone entirely of their own volition chose to complete for his without his knowledge? Am I missing something.

When are we going to admit what happened was cheating?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I feel like almost everyone I have seen post and the school officials themselves have acknowledged that it was cheating and people just think the punishment did not fit the crime. Who is "we" in your last sentence?

Fair point to some extent but let me rephrase the question, or more correctly approach the issue from a difference standpoint. Do we, the fans/public, believe that the school is telling us the truth about what happened now?

I, for one, do not.

SMU admitted our admin was cheating what else do you want the school to say to satisfy you? Or are you possibly holding what happened to SMU 30 years ago against SMU thinking it has to be more because of the reputation of the school long ago?

[Grant Carter]

[quote="Mustangsabu"]I don't believe a single word out of SMU. I'm sorry. Keith had to pass a class online and was unaware that someone entirely of their own volition chose to complete for his without his knowledge? Am I missing something.

When are we going to admit what happened was cheating?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I feel like almost everyone I have seen post and the school officials themselves have acknowledged that it was cheating and people just think the punishment did not fit the crime. Who is "we" in your last sentence?

Fair point to some extent but let me rephrase the question, or more correctly approach the issue from a difference standpoint. Do we, the fans/public, believe that the school is telling us the truth about what happened now?

I, for one, do not.

SMU admitted it was cheating what else do you want the school to say to satisfy you?[/quote]
Just a guess but he would be satisfied with his old seats back at the old price.

[Stallion]

I too don't believe for a second that we know the whole truth of went on at Kimball and I have difficulty believing that Larry Brown didn't know a) that Keith was taking the correspondence course and b) that arrangements were made to get him the grade he needed. And here's the KEY POINT under the new rules. it was Larry's job to know especially with a kid like Keith Frazier that the entire world knew was an extremely marginal student throughout his high school career. Maligi was all over it-Brown wasn't even knowledgeable about it? That's far-fetched. If you think all the loose ends are tied up on this case I can assure you that has rarely been the case with SMU-and we've got 2 former SMU employees and some fired DISD personnel still sitting out there

[PonyTime]

I too don't believe for a second that we know the whole truth of went on at Kimball and I have difficulty believing that Larry Brown didn't know a) that Keith was taking the correspondence course and b) that arrangements were made to get him the grade he needed. And here's the KEY POINT under the new rules. it was Larry's job to know especially with a kid like Keith Frazier that the entire world knew was an extremely marginal student throughout his high school career. Maligi was all over it-Brown wasn't even knowledgeable about it? That's far-fetched. If you think all the loose ends are tied up on this case I can assure you that has rarely been the case with SMU-and we've got 2 former SMU employees and some fired DISD personnel still sitting out there

Do you really believe that KF was the only Kimball student who was able to gain eligibility and play NCAA D1 athletics through the "help" of Kimball staff members? I don't. And those kids are probably out there competing right now...or they have graduated from a number of our peer schools in the state of Texas and elsewhere.

[JasonB]

Here are some facts:
- Ulrich says one thing (I wasn't involved, this is between Keith and the Admin). Keith says another (I had no idea what was going on). The one person who can clarify which story is correct, the admin, refuses to talk. That is why Ulrich isn't charged with anything. But the NCAA fully believes that he was the instigator. They believe Keith's story.
- The NCAA and SMU did a very complete, thorough investigation. Nothing they found indicated in any way that Larry new ANYTHING about what was going on when it happened. He found out one month before his hearing.
- Larry did stick his head in the sand for a month. My sense is that Larry, the school, and the NCAA all feel like it was his responsibility to report it immediately. That is why he got in trouble.
- The correction in the meeting that Larry had normally wouldn't have been a big deal, but when taken into conjunction with the holding things quiet for a month, it was taken seriously.
- Once the school found out about the admin, Ulrich, and the golf coach, all three were let go immediately. NO hesitation by the school. They were determined to act responsibly. If there was any inkling that Larry was involved, Larry would not be here either.

Larry deserves to get some punishment for sticking his head in the sand.

But the point the school is trying to make is that the NCAA recognized that the compliance program at SMU was very thorough. Everyone involved was trained on appropriate actions and what the rules were. They were also instructed by SMU that breaking the rules would result in dismissal.

They had a golf coach that told the NCAA he was fully aware of the rules, didn't agree with them, and chose to break the rules. There is nothing SMU can do about that except fire the person once it happens.

Ulrich was well trained and told violations would not be tolerated. He broke the rules and was fired when we found out about it.

I know you said self reporting isn't important. However, it is. Keep in mind the original investigation started because of the accusations that KF's school fixed his transcript. SMU investigated thoroughly to find out if that actually happened. And then they dug DEEPER than they had to and uncovered the issue with the class. WE dug deeper and found it, not the NCAA.

That should give you some level of comfort that SMU is serious about staying compliant.

[PerunasHoof]

I take your points but to be honest I don't buy it. It doesn't appear to me like we have told the truth (and by that I mean the whole truth) and I am ashamed of the program as a result. I think the sanctions are heavy handed and punish the wrong people but I am appalled at what SMU has done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You do realize that all of this was self reported to begin with?

Yes I do, but the fact that it was self-reported is one of the truly idiotic features of this case. There were so many ways that SMU could have protected itself, but they didn't. I can only put it down to either arrogance or incompetence. Either way I cannot fathom how Larry Brown and Rick Hart still have jobs. I love LB but this has brought disgrace to the University. It doesn't matter that the NCAA has made the matter worse, I think this mess has shown (yet again) that the NCAA is a terrible institution that will only continue to wreak havoc if left unchecked. We cheated, or attempted to in this instance and our actions, aside from what the NCAA has chosen to impose due to those actions, were/are dishonest. This is what the country sees. Embarrassment.

First you wanted us to hold onto June Jones forever and now you want us to fire Rick Hart? WTF? Your logic has escaped me forever on this board.

[Hoop Fan]

I actually think its naïve to believe that Larry DID know the details all along. How stupid would that have been? Surely, surely he is not that dumb and I know he is not that arrogant, you can tell by his demeanor that he is not. Maligi was a foot soldier on the trail and must have rationalized and thought 'that's the ways its done' out here. Who knows, but isn't it irrelevant because Larry IS being punished as if he knew, ie the 9 games which we are not appealing I doubt. The key is the post season ban and to me the question there should be institutional control. SMU didn't lack institutional control which is the key point to all of this in terms of severity.

[Stallion]

Really?
You are not going to sell that to a jury
I've known that Keith Frazier wasn't likely to qualify since he was a Sophomore in High School

Everybody but Texas Tech backs off

You're telling me Larry isn't getting weekly updates on getting the kid over the hump?
You're telling me that Larry Brown doesn't know that a major way to get over the hump is fixing his grades in last semester at Kimball, raising his SAT or taking a +1 Correspondence Course which I've discussed many times on this board. I bet there was at least a 3 pronged strategy to get him eligible. Grades, SAT and +1 Summer Class

Then you got the situation at Kimball-he had to know grades were changed at Kimball because SMU rejected that first transcript. Red flags all over the place.

What you are really saying is that Larry knew all these things -with a wink and a nod-but had others do the dirty work. If that's what you are saying he's lucky his punishment isn't much higher. The NCAA imposed the higher standards to deal exactly with that type of Head Coach

[Rebel10]

I actually think its naïve to believe that Larry DID know the details all along. How stupid would that have been? Surely, surely he is not that dumb and I know he is not that arrogant, you can tell by his demeanor that he is not. Maligi was a foot soldier on the trail and must have rationalized and thought 'that's the ways its done' out here. Who knows, but isn't it irrelevant because Larry IS being punished as if he knew, ie the 9 games which we are not appealing I doubt. The key is the post season ban and to me the question there should be institutional control. SMU didn't lack institutional control which is the key point to all of this in terms of severity.

I think the charge was lack of coaching control not institutional control.

[ponydawg]

[JasonB]

SMU and the NCAA both investigated and found that SMU had nothing to do with anything that happened over at Kimball. The allegations made by WFAA were taken very seriously by both SMU and the NCAA.

In fact, of note is that in the NCAA report, there are a lot of things stated that are acknowledged as subjective and not proven, such as the belief that Malagi told the admin to take the class for Keith. But there is nothing in the report that suggests SMU might have been involved in the Kimball situation.