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The Farce Known As The NCAA Committe on InfractionsModerators: PonyPride, SmooPower
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The Farce Known As The NCAA Committe on InfractionsWhenever an NCAA member university is investigated by the NCAA, the institution (and all members of the NCAA) place an absolute trust in the fairness of the investigative process itself and strict compliance with the procedures and protocol that govern the NCAA. These processes/protocols are outlined in the rules and regulations which are adopted by each member school and the NCAA itself. At the core of any administrative hearing are two primary tenets: due process and strict compliance with the adopted rules/processes.
When SMU was recently sanctioned by the NCAA, there were many on this Board that felt/believed that the NCAA was on a mission to finally get Larry Brown, and that there was a presumption of wrong doing by SMU because it had ascended into the national spotlight too quickly. After all, many argued, SMU had a history of cheating and the Death Penalty era was proof of the lengths SMU would undertake to gain an unfair advantage. So when the sanctions were announced against SMU and Larry Brown many people, including most national media observers, quickly concluded that the NCAA had done a thorough job and reached the right conclusion based upon the evidence and the processes that were afforded SMU. After all, the presumption is/remains that the NCAA and its investigative body- the Committee on Infractions (COI)- is fair and even handed and only issues punishment/conclusions when the evidence is overwhelming, clear and direct. But what if I told you that the NCAA itself does not follow its own protocols and procedures? What if I told you that the COI uses evidence that was never part of the official record? What if I told you that the NCAA gives credence and weight to support a pre-determined result of guilt? What if I told you that before the NCAA the presumption of innocence which is part of the legal fabric of our Country, doesn’t exist before the NCAA? And what if I told you, that individuals within the NCAA are allowed to weigh in and participate in the punishment and findings when the rules and processes strictly disallow the inclusion of such individuals? To this, you and almost everyone else would say, “you have too much time on your hands and you’re disgruntled because your school is punished routinely for cheating. It’s time for you to move along and accept your punishment.” But alas, today I am not arguing for SMU. I am arguing against an agency that is internally flawed, prejudiced and hell bent to create its own rules to justify the findings it wants to make. Ladies and gentleman, I present to you the University of Southern California and Todd McNair. What I am about to show you should send shivers down your spine and cause you to get angry. Why? Because the NCAA can and will destroy people. The NCAA and those who work internally for it will purposely disregard the truth to find guilt- not just on the evidence presented, but on evidence that should never be considered. “Counselor”, you would say, “that sounds un-American. The NCAA is a fine organization that furthers the academic and athletic endeavors of its student athletes and member schools. It exists merely to level the playing field and make sure everyone plays fair.” Funny, you mention playing fair ladies and gentlemen, because as I will show you, the NCAA is far from fair. USC is a private school in California. Academically, it is a fine, fine University. Its football team is one of the most visible in college football. The mighty USC Trojans. O.J. Simpson, Ricky Bell, Lynn Swann, Marcus Allen. You don’t know them, How about Matt Lineart and Reggie Bush? Yes, those names sound familiar and here’s why. In 2006, the NCAA began investigating USC for alleged rules violations. For purposes of this story today, there are two names that are relevant to USC. Reggie Bush, who I will call “Football Player” and Todd McNair, who I will call “Asst. Coach.” Sometime before 2006, the NCAA received word that Football Player had received improper benefits from a convicted felon named Lloyd Lake, who I will call “Convicted Felon.” Convicted Felon was a man with integrity as pure and white and mud. You see where this is going, don’t you? When you’re a Convicted Felon, well, you’re a convicted felon. So Convicted Felon told the Committee on Infractions (COI) at the NCAA that Asst. Coach knew that Football Player was receiving benefits. COI directed the gist of its findings to a two-minute and 23 second call between Convicted Felon and Asst. Coach. Based on the evidence, the NCAA concluded that Asst. Coach knew of the improper benefits. However, when you read the actual testimony given by Convicted Felon, it is far from clear, what if anything, Asst. Coach knew. Nonetheless, in its report, the COI found that Asst. Coach knew about the improper benefits. The report further added, that Asst. Coach violated the NCAA ethical conduct legislation by providing false and misleading information regarding his knowledge of the telephone call and the NCAA violations associated with it. Furthermore, the report found that Asst. Coach falsely attested through his signature on a statement that he had no knowledge of NCAA violations. Due Process and the NCAA: Is there really such a thing? On December 7, 2015, the Second Appellate District (Div. 3) of the State of California, considered an appeal taken by Asst. Coach. Asst. Coach alleged that the COI findings and report contained false information that amounted to defamation. The opinion has not been certified for publication, but exists as a matter of public record. The case is styled, Todd McNair v. National Collegiate Athletic Association, B245475. The following are quoted parts from the court’s recent opinion that establishes the points I laid out for you above: 1. “Nowhere in the COI or Appeals committee reports is there any evidence, other than [Convicted Felon’s] interview, that Football Player told Asst. Coach about the agency agreement or improper benefits. Hence, the interviews about the two-minute call appear to be the sole basis for the NCAA’s findings that McNair knew about the NCAA violations”; 2. “The COI report acknowledges that USC, Asst. Coach and the enforcement staff disagreed about the facts underlying the finding against Asst. Coach. Over the course of three and half pages, the COI report recites that McNair claimed there was no proof that he knew or ever met Convicted Felon or [his associate].” 3. “The COI consists of athletic directors, athletic-conference commissioners, faculty athletic representatives, judges, attorneys and professors who service voluntarily and not as employees of the NCAA. The NCAA bylaws require that only the members of the COI shall deliberate in a particular enforcement proceeding. The NCAA Bylaws require that the “COI shall excuse all others from the hearing and that the COI shall make its determinations of fact and violation in private.” 4. The opinion cites two members of the COI who had serious reservations about the evidence against Asst. Coach and whether he had direct knowledge. Another questioned the interview of Convicted Felon which was “choppy on his relationship with Asst. Coach and had difficulty being able to come up with his name until staff prompted him.” Another non-voting member offered that the “staff . .. has seemed to have fallen short with this investigation….”; 5. Another individual, Roscoe Howard, was an observer of the COI/USC proceedings. As an observer, policy/protocol prevented him from “directly participating in the adjudication of cases.” That didn’t stop Roscoe from giving his two cents. Not only did Howard speak at the deliberations (in violation of NCAA rules), he WROTE and SENT a FOUR AND A HALF PAGE email to members of the COI “strongly voicing his position about what should be done with respect to Asst. Coach.” But that’s not all, this legal scholar went further and said Asst. Coach “should have all inferences negatively inferred against him.” But wait, there’s more. To lend weight and credence to his position, Howard attached evidence that was not part of the official record, namely a LA Times article and information alluding to criminal events in Asst. Coach’s past. 6. When the COi was unable to reach a consensus, Rodney Uphoff, the NCAA Coordinator of Appeals, who could attend deliberations, BUT COULD NOT PARTICIPATE , sent this email: “Obviously this email is only going to you. I haven’t been able to sleep for 3 nights because I fear that the committee is going to be too lenient on USC . . . Howard and I are both concerned because the evidence in our view was overwhelming that he was involved in 2004 . . . I am working on a long memo summarizing the evidence…. Individuals like [Asst. Coach] shouldn’t be coaching; at any level . . . he’s a morally bankrupt criminal, in my opinion, and hypocrite of the highest order.” 7. “Neither Asst. Coach nor his attorney were made aware of these emails or given an opportunity to respond to them.” 8. In response to the lawsuit filed by Asst. Coach against the NCAA, the NCAA filed pleadings asserting that “most of the facts disclosed in the [COI] report are true.” 9. As noted, the “two minute call appears to be the sole basis for the NCAA’s ethics violation finding against [Asst. Coach]. Yet, a jury could reasonably conclude that [Convicted Felon’s] interview did not support the statement that [Asst. Coach] knew about NCAA violations.” The court further added, “[i]f a jury concludes the statement is false, this operative statement would be defamatory.” ; 10. With regard to the emails and evidence from outside the record the Court added,” [t]his evidence clearly indicates that the ensuing COI report was worded in disregard to the truth to enable the COI to arrive at a predetermined conclusion that USC employee [Asst. Coach] was aware of the NCAA violations.”; 11. “To summarize, [Asst. Coach] established a probability that he could show actual malice by clear and convincing evidence based on the COI’s doubt about [Asst. Coach’s] knowledge, along with its reckless disregard for the truth about his knowledge, and by allowing itself to be influenced by nonmembers to reach a needed conclusion.” ; In conclusion, this should really [deleted] everyone off. Why this is isn’t front center of ESPN or some other outlet, I can only speculate. McNair/Asst. Coach will have his day in court and in my opinion, the NCAA is going to have its head served on a silver platter. The COI’s findings are flawed, and more importantly, the whole process was poisoned by the inclusion of evidence outside the record and the influence asserted by members not on the COI. So now do you believe the NCAA was fair to Larry Brown? Do you understand now why the punishment was so heavy against SMU? Do you now question, the COI’s findings that LB knew, or should have known, about the alleged wrongdoing? Do you now believe, that the NCAA possibly/might have had it out for Larry Brown and SMU and perhaps the process isn’t as fair as we are lead to believe? This is not conspiratorial. These are facts -- unlike the COI’s report which was “mostly . . . true”.
Re: The Farce Known As The NCAA Committe on Infractions
I think most people would say "thanks, Captain Obvious". Whichever side you happen to fall on the whole concept of the appeal, anybody who honestly believes that the NCAA is a group of impartial, honest and fair arbitrators with only the best of intentions to protect student athletes in mind needs to seek professional help immediately. It's lack of integrity was a big reason why I was ambivalent about the appeal and inclined to follow LB's lead on it; when an inherently corrupt organization decides to slap you around, what the hell makes you think that when you ask them to reconsider that they will do anything other that slap you around again since clearly you didn't get the message the first time? I have no faith whatsoever in the NCAA's desire to protect anything other than its cash flow. "I don't think anyone around the country has any idea how good we are going to be." - Coach Justin Stepp
GO MUSTANGS!!!!
Re: The Farce Known As The NCAA Committe on InfractionsOne thing I will say though is that part of the problem is that the NCAA does not have subpoena power. They have some power over schools to provide information but virtually none when it comes to anyone not employed by a university or enrolled as a student. As a result their investigations tend to suck.
Re: The Farce Known As The NCAA Committe on Infractions1) Do you really believe that USC and McNair are free of wrong-doing? I agree with all of your legal mumbo-jumbo that you have eloquently litigated, but I am not asking if you think he is not guilty or will win an appeal. I am asking, do you really believe McNair had NOTHING to do with it?
2) Not to defend the NCAA or COI, but you are also arguing against a former COI protocol that has been reconfigured. I will direct you to FIGURE 19-1 of the Infractions Program, titled Penalty Guidelines. This newly implemented structure did not exist previously. I am not saying this is any better than the old structure. You just aren't using a relative comparison as there is none. Even UNC may not be held accountable under the new system since their infractions clearly occurred during the former governance system. AND I GUARANTEE YOU, if they are lobbying anything behind the scenes, it is to be under the old COI system and to avoid FIGURE 19-1 which would clearly penalize them under Violation Level I Aggravated which includes postseason Ban of 2-4 years as compared to the SMU Violation Level I of Standard which carries a more modest 1-2 years postseason ban. Last edited by 2ndandlong on Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"This is . . . dedication to distraction by fans. Is that what I'm going to go with Jay?"
"That poor kid has to be wondering what is dad doing." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XknLDwj0dSo
Re: The Farce Known As The NCAA Committe on Infractions![]() It just so happens I have a copy of it with me. "This is . . . dedication to distraction by fans. Is that what I'm going to go with Jay?"
"That poor kid has to be wondering what is dad doing." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XknLDwj0dSo
Re: The Farce Known As The NCAA Committe on InfractionsThe National Corrupt RassRoll Assoc. has existed since about 1975 when I gave it that name
after reading about post season, and television bans given to us in the late 50s, and early 60s for minor stuff like a booster flying an athlete on his private plane to get to the hospital on time to say good bye to a dying parent ![]() May the forth be with us.
Re: The Farce Known As The NCAA Committe on InfractionsCall Thad. Let's make a 30 for 30 about the Mustangs that 30-0 and got [deleted] by these corrupt bags of d
BOP - Providing insensitivity training for a politically correct world since 1989.
Re: The Farce Known As The NCAA Committe on InfractionsThat's why smart schools handle their problems internally, and naïve schools self-report. Or let their school of religion present their case in a possible case involving the 'death penalty'.
Re: The Farce Known As The NCAA Committe on Infractionsevery school in the freakin country self reports-every damn one of them. It happens hundreds of times a year-big and small. The fact that you babble on with this crap shows yet again that you have no idea what you are talking about. If you don't want to play by NCAA rules there are plenty of professional leagues to support. Bottom line-SMU CHEATED-for about the 10th time in its history and all those cases are well documented-in most cases admitted. In fact, in most of those cases SMU took Mexmustang's advice to stonewall and SMU deservedly had its [deleted] handed to it by the NCAA for lying to the NCAA. Its guys that think like Mexmustang that have screwed this university for decades. Now they are crawling up from the gutters again saying hey- we want to cheat some more and when we get caught we are going to lie to the NCAA AGAIN. Just remember Larry Brown is going to be kicked out of college basketball the next time SMU tries to pull amateur hour cheating-and don't be so naïve to think SMU wasn't involved in both of Keith's schemes at SMU and the DISD. In this case, SMU set up a fake academic course to illegally admit one of the Top Basketball players in the country. Blatant Academic Fraud that goes to the core values of a university. SMU turned itself in likely because of the Ch. 8 reporter was hot on our heels for some shady activities at Kimball. There was CHEATING there too-although as of yet not tied to SMU but don't hold your breath. Any SMU fan should know that the facts don't always come out until after the NCAA probation.
Last edited by Stallion on Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
"With a quarter of a tank of gas, we can get everything we need right here in DFW." -SMU Head Coach Chad Morris
When momentum starts rolling downhill in recruiting-WATCH OUT.
Re: The Farce Known As The NCAA Committe on InfractionsYou are ignorant, in denial, stupid, or all of the above if you think what we did was out of the ordinary in college athletics.
Lesson learned here is do not report the violation and fight the NCAA until the bitter end. Back off Warchild seriously.
Re: The Farce Known As The NCAA Committe on Infractionsthere were 3,624 violation reported to the NCAA from Division 1A schools last year-what we have are posters ignorant of what is going on in NCAA enforcement. EVERY major university in this country self reports violations.
Last edited by Stallion on Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
"With a quarter of a tank of gas, we can get everything we need right here in DFW." -SMU Head Coach Chad Morris
When momentum starts rolling downhill in recruiting-WATCH OUT.
Re: The Farce Known As The NCAA Committe on InfractionsWhat did I just say? There is shady sh*t going on everywhere. Knowing our history and relationship with the NCAA I still maintain it was stupid to report the violation.
As to enforcement, the metrics used by the NCAA are laughable and absurd. The cronyism, corruption, and greed of that organization is vomit inducing. How anyone could take them at their word is beyond me. Back off Warchild seriously.
Re: The Farce Known As The NCAA Committe on Infractions
I got a stiff neck from looking sideways I'm going bring litigation
Re: The Farce Known As The NCAA Committe on InfractionsSue the ncaa for damages
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