Juco QB

by **Stallion** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:52 pm

I mean we are just getting flat outrecruited or out-Modeled in some cases when the recruits aren't admitted. Let's take TCU because they aren't Big 12. They have a series of Top 100 QBs going to that school over the last 6-8 years. When one gets hurt-guess what they have another one to lead them to a great year. Heck they've had great recruits who never got off the bench because they were behind other Top 100 QBs. At some point it just comes down to outrecruiting your opponent. TCU has got the job done and we haven't.

by **Pony Fan** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:52 pm

Terry Webster wrote:Stallion-

I am interested in your remark that 'we aren't closing the deal'. I am not an expert on recruiting and it has been a long time since I have lived in the Dallas area, so I am not sure that means. Can you give me an insight as to what we aren't doing in regards to closing the deal?
Thanks!

Why would you ask him that?

by **Pony Fan** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:53 pm

Stallion wrote:all the decent JUCO QBs are a) already heading to their new campus because they signed on December 15 or b) ineligible to transfer until summer when they graduate from Junior College. If we are still looking for one now we are at least stirring the bottom of the barrell. Honestly I've never understood why you want to take a warm body just because he is a JUCO. Yes we should take the best player availiable with an increased recruiting pool availiable in JUCO -but can we still insist on quality. We took too many JUCOs two years ago when we should have planning for his successor. Where is the quality recruiting at QB. Does Phil Bennett know what a quality QB is? We ain't getting our first, fifth or tenth choice at QB during the last 3 years. We have had the weakest QB play in the 5 state region over the last 4 years. The program will pay because we ain't closing deals on quality QBs.

Does not even warrant a response........

by **Pony Fan** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:57 pm

Stallion wrote:I mean we are just getting flat outrecruited or out-Modeled in some cases when the recruits aren't admitted. Let's take TCU because they aren't Big 12. They have a series of Top 100 QBs going to that school over the last 6-8 years. When one gets hurt-guess what they have another one to lead them to a great year. Heck they've had great recruits who never got off the bench because they were behind other Top 100 QBs. At some point it just comes down to outrecruiting your opponent. TCU has got the job done and we haven't.

Kind of like James Battle, huh?

by **Pony Fan** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:01 pm

Stallion wrote:all the decent JUCO QBs are a) already heading to their new campus because they signed on December 15 or b) ineligible to transfer until summer when they graduate from Junior College. If we are still looking for one now we are at least stirring the bottom of the barrell. Honestly I've never understood why you want to take a warm body just because he is a JUCO. Yes we should take the best player availiable with an increased recruiting pool availiable in JUCO -but can we still insist on quality. We took too many JUCOs two years ago when we should have planning for his successor. Where is the quality recruiting at QB. Does Phil Bennett know what a quality QB is? We ain't getting our first, fifth or tenth choice at QB during the last 3 years. We have had the weakest QB play in the 5 state region over the last 4 years. The program will pay because we ain't closing deals on quality QBs.

I believe I read that the national champions have a redshirt freshman and two kids still in high school battling for their starting QB job, so I guess they are failing too on your twisted logic.

by **ReedFrawg** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:06 pm

Exactly...he was never going to see the field so he left. Actually proves Stallion's point when a highly rated QB leaves because he is not going to play.

Kind of like James Battle, huh?[/quote]

by **Corso** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:09 pm

Stallion wrote: .... We ain't getting our first, fifth or tenth choice at QB during the last 3 years....

Golly, Coach, how depressing. Since you have access to the coaches' board, who were No. 1, No. 5 and No. 10 on the board? Look, the coaches aren't going to take a guy just because he's breathing. If they recruit a guy, they see something -- size, speed, strength, or some intangible that doesn't show up on rivals but makes them think there's a player in there. And if someone doesn't pan out, does that mean the coaches can't evaluate talent? There were a hell of a lot of coaches who thought Ryan Leaf would be a great NFL quarterback .... some thought even better than Peyton Manning.

by **Corso** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:11 pm

ReedFrawg wrote:Exactly...he was never going to see the field so he left. Actually proves Stallion's point when a highly rated QB leaves because he is not going to play....

No it doesn't. It proves how inexact the science of recruiting is. Battle was on the wish list of countless coaches. For a number of reasons, he didn't pan out. I daresay that doesn't mean Coach Patterson should be dogpiled for recruiting him.

by **ReedFrawg** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:15 pm

Corso wrote:
ReedFrawg wrote:Exactly...he was never going to see the field so he left. Actually proves Stallion's point when a highly rated QB leaves because he is not going to play....
No it doesn't. It proves how inexact the science of recruiting is. Battle was on the wish list of countless coaches. For a number of reasons, he didn't pan out. I daresay that doesn't mean Coach Patterson should be dogpiled for recruiting him.

True...proves that too if the guy can't play. Apparently he put on too much weight and could not master the offense.

by **Corso** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:19 pm

Right. Whatever the reason -- put on weight, couldn't learn the offense, flunked Underwater Basketweaving, decided he didn't like purple -- he didn't become what countless coaches thought he would be. I don't know what's become of him, but I wish him the best of luck, wherever he is. But just because Coach Patterson won the battle to recruit him doesn't mean Coach Patterson can't evaluate talent.
It happens at every school.

by **Terry Webster** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:33 pm

I asked Stallion the question because, quite simply, I don't know the answer to what he posed. I hate to admit this, but I don't know all of the various issues that SMU faces when it comes to recruiting. I am sorry that my request has turned into an (another) opportunity to beat up Stallion. Thanks for the reply though. I am still interested in what exactly needs to be done to make the playing field more even. The academic issues are complex, I suspect, and there is probably little that Coach Bennett can do about them. What are some things that he and the other coaches can do?

by **Stallion** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:36 pm

Great argument guys-which I anticipated as ReedFrog noticed-but the fact is TCU has had 3-4 OTHER Texas Top 100 QBs to take the job. Not only that but TWO BACKUP Texas Top 100 QBs came off the bench to lead TCU to TWO 10-1 records going into the bowl game. That's called depth and reaping the rewards of solid recruiting.

by **Corso** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:41 pm

I didn't intend to attack Stallion, but looking back, I can see it sounds that way. I apologize for that, Stallion. I'm merely suggesting that the coaches get a hell of a lot more information about guys by meeting them, watching their tapes, going to their HS games, etc., than we ever will by surfing the internet .... fun thought that may be.

by **JasonB** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:53 pm

One thing to point out here - the QB situation was completely bare before Bennett got here. He has gone out and recruited Phillips, Meeks, and Willis, all of whom were 3 star recruits, and two JUCO recruits, that while neither were top tier JUCO recruits, both were decently regarded and Romo ended up doing a decent job, especially behind a young offensive line. And just being able to go out and grab JUCO QBs was a major step in the right direction.

I agree, Stallion, that our QB play has to get better. And we definately need a top tier recruit. Our recruiting has definately been better under Bennett than under Cavan, even at the QB position, but that isn't saying much. But to say that we haven't brought anyone in is not accurate. Sure, right now we don't have much in the stable, but some of that is because of bad luck (Phillips), not bad recruiting. And sometimes highly regarded QBs just don't pan out (Battle, Meeks). TCU is in a good situation because they have had several years in a row of recruiting decent QBs. We have only had a couple, so we haven't built the dpeth up to be able to recover is someone doesn't pan out.

I do agree that bringing in a GOOD JUCO QB is a major need in this recruiting class. Most of the folks that follow the program agree with that. And would consider the class a little disappointing if we don't get one, because it is going to hinder the progress of the program next year while Willis gets his feet wet.

That said, before I start saying that we are scraping the bottom of the barrel, or that Bennett has really screwed up, or anything drastic like that, I will wait until someone signs on the dotted line before making my judgements. Keep in mind that even A&M hasn't signed a couple of the JUCOs they are after. They aren't bottom of the barrell players, either. All is not lost... yet

.

by **Mickey** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:03 pm

Pony Fan wrote:
Stallion wrote:I mean we are just getting flat outrecruited or out-Modeled in some cases when the recruits aren't admitted. Let's take TCU because they aren't Big 12. They have a series of Top 100 QBs going to that school over the last 6-8 years. When one gets hurt-guess what they have another one to lead them to a great year. Heck they've had great recruits who never got off the bench because they were behind other Top 100 QBs. At some point it just comes down to outrecruiting your opponent. TCU has got the job done and we haven't.

Kind of like James Battle, huh?

List the EXCEPTION again. Next will be Chris Bordano as a succesful player that wasn't highly rated.

Juco QB

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