Debt-College Athletics

[PoconoPony]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... pling-debt

[Water Pony]

Debt service is especially a problem for public P5 Schools, like Cal, that have to "keep up with the Jones", e.g. Alabama, OSU, OR, USC, LSU, UT, OK, etc. Coaching salaries are not the primary problem, but they are symptomatic of how college sports are financially distressed.

Originally coaches held teaching posts. Mega-salaries and new staff roles and positions drive Operating Costs, while Capital expenditures, if not paid for by gifts that SMU relies on, rely on debt service.

If Cal and others decide to eliminate Non-revenue sports to make ends meet, then college sports and their role in character and leadership development is lost. Sad.

[mathman]

Water Pony, I always enjoy your posts and this one hit the nail on the head. I have season tickets in football and basketball but I love to keep up with the non revenue sports as well. Being 70 years old I have seen so many changes in the sports part of college life since I graduated from SMU in 1968 and most have not been for the better. Like you said, sad.

[PoconoPony]

WP's concerns are legitimate. Roughly 10 years ago Rutgers eliminated 7 minor sports to accommodate their football debt service primarily a $150 million renovation of the football stadium. More recently Maryland dropped 7 minor sports to join the Big 10 and cover anticipated extra expenses for football and service over $100 million in facilities debt.

[ojaipony]

I'm pretty sure we're the only country in the world with this kind of set up: post secondary educational institutions with minor league semi-professional sports teams. Sort of run amuck. I'd rather we have all one way or the other. Truly amateur sports teams tied to educational institutions and then your minor league semi pro teams. And I LOVE college sports and the atmosphere, especially my alma mater. So I guess I'm a bit hypocritical there. But such is life.

[Digetydog]

I'm pretty sure we're the only country in the world with this kind of set up: post secondary educational institutions with minor league semi-professional sports teams. Sort of run amuck. I'd rather we have all one way or the other. Truly amateur sports teams tied to educational institutions and then your minor league semi pro teams. And I LOVE college sports and the atmosphere, especially my alma mater. So I guess I'm a bit hypocritical there. But such is life.

We are.

Honestly, I think Baseball/Hockey have the best setup in the US. If you want to be a professional, turn pro. If you want an education, you can probably get some extra financial aid and enjoy the opportunity to play team sports at a high level.

Football and basketball are totally out of control. Although I understand why so many people (including Coach Morris) want an IPF, it really is idiotic to spend $50MM on an indoor facility in Dallas.

[gostangs]

yeah - and if you are honest you would admit that sports has limited (if any) ability to really contribute to character and leadership. In my view that is mostly imagined. The kids that thane character would have it whether they played sports or not. They certainly don't learn it from coaches or fans or other players. You might learn some teamwork, but you could probably get that in other ways.

I love sports, but I think the "sports=character" thing is way overblown. They are just games at the end of the day. Romanticizing it like it is going off to war is kind of silly.

[Topper]

yeah - and if you are honest you would admit that sports has limited (if any) ability to really contribute to character and leadership. In my view that is mostly imagined. The kids that thane character would have it whether they played sports or not. They certainly don't learn it from coaches or fans or other players. You might learn some teamwork, but you could probably get that in other ways.

I love sports, but I think the "sports=character" thing is way overblown. They are just games at the end of the day. Romanticizing it like it is going off to war is kind of silly.

I have seen a lot of kids given structure in their life for the first time when they got involved in organized team sports. But I have seen a lot of kids who are not athletic get the same thing in other activities. I am concerned about team sports at the high school level when a high school with several thousand kids can only put 22 of them in the starting lineup in football or 5 on the court at once in basketball. The rest of them can only be spectators. There is something backward about that.

[Water Pony]

yeah - and if you are honest you would admit that sports has limited (if any) ability to really contribute to character and leadership. In my view that is mostly imagined. The kids that thane character would have it whether they played sports or not. They certainly don't learn it from coaches or fans or other players. You might learn some teamwork, but you could probably get that in other ways.

I love sports, but I think the "sports=character" thing is way overblown. They are just games at the end of the day. Romanticizing it like it is going off to war is kind of silly.

I couldn't disagree more. Sports and coaching provide a foundation of discipline, teamwork, shared sacrifice and appreciation that effort and perspiration contribute to development. Life lessons "earned" reveal themselves as better character traits over time. The rewards are self-confidence and the recognition that improvement is possible and that teams win together, whether football, track, swimming, etc. For the athlete, it is a gift that keeps giving.

[gostangs]

I respectfully disagree. I have known a ton of college athletes over the years. They are no more or less disciplined or of high character than the population at large - if anything they are less disciplined and of lower character. Many of them are lost when their playing days are over, and don't know how to join the real world.

I think it is possible that some guys who don't otherwise know how to work in a team, learn that through sports. Also they may learn that hard work yields benefits - but there are other ways to learn both of those things. Over time I just haven't seen reality match up with the hype of off the field athletic benefit.

Its a sport. Sports are fun. That's about it. No need to over glorify it.

[Digetydog]

yeah - and if you are honest you would admit that sports has limited (if any) ability to really contribute to character and leadership. In my view that is mostly imagined. The kids that thane character would have it whether they played sports or not. They certainly don't learn it from coaches or fans or other players. You might learn some teamwork, but you could probably get that in other ways.

I love sports, but I think the "sports=character" thing is way overblown. They are just games at the end of the day. Romanticizing it like it is going off to war is kind of silly.

I have seen a lot of kids given structure in their life for the first time when they got involved in organized team sports. But I have seen a lot of kids who are not athletic get the same thing in other activities. I am concerned about team sports at the high school level when a high school with several thousand kids can only put 22 of them in the starting lineup in football or 5 on the court at once in basketball. The rest of them can only be spectators. There is something backward about that.

I feel sorry for the kids who play FB at Allen HS. With the number of students in that school, they could easily field 3-4 teams without fielding a crappy squad. While 22 get to be "standouts," [100's???] of kids who should be playing FB don't really have any opportunity to play. How many kids don't make the team that should?

[ericdickerson4life]

I loved the fact that I went to a smaller, private school for just this reason. I was able to play not only one sport but one every season (if I wanted). If I went to one of the bigger schools in my area I would be limited to one sport and probably wouldn't have stepped on the field till my senior year.

[Topper]

I loved the fact that I went to a smaller, private school for just this reason. I was able to play not only one sport but one every season (if I wanted). If I went to one of the bigger schools in my area I would be limited to one sport and probably wouldn't have stepped on the field till my senior year.

Same for me. I played varsity FB and bb as a sophomore and was on the forensics team and student council. Played on the golf team when there wasn't a baseball game. Not a great athlete but I got to play.

[RGV Pony]

yeah - and if you are honest you would admit that sports has limited (if any) ability to really contribute to character and leadership. In my view that is mostly imagined. The kids that thane character would have it whether they played sports or not. They certainly don't learn it from coaches or fans or other players. You might learn some teamwork, but you could probably get that in other ways.

I love sports, but I think the "sports=character" thing is way overblown. They are just games at the end of the day. Romanticizing it like it is going off to war is kind of silly.

I have seen a lot of kids given structure in their life for the first time when they got involved in organized team sports. But I have seen a lot of kids who are not athletic get the same thing in other activities. I am concerned about team sports at the high school level when a high school with several thousand kids can only put 22 of them in the starting lineup in football or 5 on the court at once in basketball. The rest of them can only be spectators. There is something backward about that.

I feel sorry for the kids who play FB at Allen HS. With the number of students in that school, they could easily field 3-4 teams without fielding a crappy squad. While 22 get to be "standouts," [100's???] of kids who should be playing FB don't really have any opportunity to play. How many kids don't make the team that should?

Exactly why my kid uses his mom's address in Plano even though he moved in with me in Allen [before I finally moved to Dallas]

[Water Pony]

I respectfully disagree. I have known a ton of college athletes over the years. They are no more or less disciplined or of high character than the population at large - if anything they are less disciplined and of lower character. Many of them are lost when their playing days are over, and don't know how to join the real world.

I think it is possible that some guys who don't otherwise know how to work in a team, learn that through sports. Also they may learn that hard work yields benefits - but there are other ways to learn both of those things. Over time I just haven't seen reality match up with the hype of off the field athletic benefit.

Its a sport. Sports are fun. That's about it. No need to over glorify it.

Thanks to Title IX and Non-Revenue Sports, the vast majority of these athletics are testimony that your direct experience is simply too narrow to be accurate. My experience is the exact opposite of yours.