Tell me what you see?

[ojaipony]

I think you keep the staff in tact through to bowl game. Then we should relieve Van and evaluate who else we keep on the defensive side. I think you need a saltier, savvier DC. I'd keep Wyatt. Not sure about Loepp and LB coach.

[RGV Pony]

Two Cents:
D is the problem. OK, I get the recruiting lag but nobody has talked about the transfers to the D. I am thinking we got like 3 or 4 players in from pretty good places. I am thinking that would really bolster the whatever recruiting year statistics.

Van is good man, he is over his head. There needs to be a change. Personally I hate the scheme he runs. A coach uses the players he has to stop the other team. You cant force players to do what they don't have the talent to do. So, the good coach changes the scheme.

Top 10 in everything we do! Well, the Offense is. How fun to watch. That group has improved quickly (3 years) And I think it gets even better next year.

As a show of desire and commitment, I would relieve VM of his duties after the Tulane game. Have Buddy Wyatt take over for Bowl game. Show all that CM is serious and have new people in place for Jan 1. CM teaches about reality and this is what the team will see. Just like the real world... Get it done or someone else will.

Good point re transfers. Had a DT from South Carolina who started and a DE from 10RC...not to mention the aggy LB who hasn't played yet

[tristatecoog]

Using Stallion's talent site and Massey's composite rankings, I compare wk 12 of 2017 vs. wk 12 of 2015 and aggregate talent in 2017 vs. 2015 for schools with new coaches over the last three years. The difference between 2017 and 2015 is reflected in Rank and Recruit, respectively. I then multiply 2x Rank and add the recruit change since that's the bedrock of long term success.

UCF has improved its ranking by 114 spots in two years and its aggregate recruit value by 87 points. Memphis rose from #36 to #19 which is tougher than Tulane's #110 to #80. Overall, I give Scott Frost top nod. UAB's coach could deserve COY for going from no team to #93. FAU may be smoke and mirrors with short term recruiting success and a system but it's working in year one. Up to #38 ranking from #112 last year! Chad Morris has taken SMU from #127 in wk 12 of 2014 to #60 now. Great progression with a 46 point improvement in recruiting score too. However, Seth Littrell at UNT has improved almost that much in two years (#124 to #62). The issue with UNT is that it has a below-average talent pool. They're more than 10% below Tulane and have regressed the last two years. I expect some improvement this year (after going bowling two years in a row) but it's tough for them to compete for talent.

Tulane has made progress. Up 30 spots in the rankings but talent isn't great. System can overcome that, like Navy.
Houston and Tulsa. Both have regressed in the rankings but have improved talent. Tulsa's talent is roughly equal to UAB. Monty needs some breaks.

Rank Recruit 2xRank+Recruit
UCF 114 87 315
UAB 35 181 251
FAU 74 95 243
Mem 17 126 160
SMU 42 46 130
UNT 62 -29 95
Tulane30 -12 48
UH -27 48 -6
Tulsa -15 19 -11

[Stallion]

Interesting Massey Ratings are different than Sagaran Ratings which I happened to look up last night-Sagaran compares all football teams including FBS and FCS

SMU was No. 207 in Sagarin the year before Chad Morris got here--so we've improved +134 spots. We were worse than about 79 FCS schools. SMU is making solid straight line improvement up on Sagarin like you'd expect from a rebuild:
2014: 207
2015: 128
2016: 92
2017: 73
Only 2 1/2 of the 5 Classes are in place in the rebuild-since many in 2017 redshirted-that is how you should look at it

[tristatecoog]

But UCF has improved its rankings as much in two years as SMU has in three years.
UNT has improved more over the last two years and was as bad, or worse, than SMU when they replaced McCarney.
FAU has had a great one year. Maybe not redshirting anyone of note.
Memphis has kept improving.

These are all ex-OCs (Oregon, UNC, Bama and ASU). Chad has done a great rebuilding job. However, it's not the best in the country. FAU and Memphis have improved recruiting more and UCF has widened the gap. Maybe there are more D1 transfers and quality redshirts that will show up next year for the Ponies.

Can SMU get a top flight DC with high six figure pay? You'd think one would be motivated to work with Chad and keep things moving towards Top 25.

[jimhagle]

sounds smart-seems like you understand the business world-you don't understand much about what it takes for a total rebuild in college football. 24 months? It takes 3-4 years before you can rebuild what no one disputes was one of the least talented and worst offenses AND defenses in the Country. It probably is going to take 5 years to win Championships/Top 25. You rebuild in College Football from the ground up by recruiting. You don't get to find 85 replacements from Day 1. We had about 1 month to get 18-then 25 the next year and 25 more this year--you redshirt as many as you can and also have to develop them in a Strength and Conditioning program. When those kids are Redshirt Sophomores or Juniors you BEGIN to see result. From that foundation and beginning signs of progress you can attract higher rated recruits that can take the program to the Championship level. That's what smart people in the College Football world understand. SMU would have fired Ron Meyer under your scenario because he didn't even get to a Bowl or have a winning record until year 5 and wasn't able to get the players he needed to win Championships until his 4th recruiting class. The good news is that you get 3 credit hours of CLE for attending this Coaching Rebuild 1.0 seminar-hopefully SMU fans are learning something about college football

Did it take Dennis Franchione 2 to 3 years to rebuild TCU? No.

[tristatecoog]

"One of Coach Sullivan's greatest contributions to TCU was the recruitment of future NFL star running back LaDainian Tomlinson to Fort Worth." Sutton is fabulous but not LT.

[Stallion]

Two Cents:
D is the problem. OK, I get the recruiting lag but nobody has talked about the transfers to the D. I am thinking we got like 3 or 4 players in from pretty good places. I am thinking that would really bolster the whatever recruiting year statistics.

Van is good man, he is over his head. There needs to be a change. Personally I hate the scheme he runs. A coach uses the players he has to stop the other team. You cant force players to do what they don't have the talent to do. So, the good coach changes the scheme.

Top 10 in everything we do! Well, the Offense is. How fun to watch. That group has improved quickly (3 years) And I think it gets even better next year.

As a show of desire and commitment, I would relieve VM of his duties after the Tulane game. Have Buddy Wyatt take over for Bowl game. Show all that CM is serious and have new people in place for Jan 1. CM teaches about reality and this is what the team will see. Just like the real world... Get it done or someone else will.

Good point re transfers. Had a DT from South Carolina who started and a DE from 10RC...not to mention the aggy LB who hasn't played yet

yeah but the defensive decline started happening when Mixon (Tennessee) got hurt and Neals ( a 1 year JUCO sophomore transfer) missed Navy and I believe parts of 2 other games. We've been back-filling to replace those transfers in recent weeks. We don't have a South Carolina transfer either.

[Stallion]

you guys need to stop analyzing rebuilding jobs over poor results in a single year-to understand college football you need to analyze recruiting classes over a 4-5 year spectrum. That's why some of us told you that June Jones program was failing 2 years before it showed up on the field and why some of us told you that Chad Morris' program was headed to a bowl 2 years before it happened. If you don't understand recruiting you don't know the direction of the program.

[RGV Pony]

Two Cents:
D is the problem. OK, I get the recruiting lag but nobody has talked about the transfers to the D. I am thinking we got like 3 or 4 players in from pretty good places. I am thinking that would really bolster the whatever recruiting year statistics.

Van is good man, he is over his head. There needs to be a change. Personally I hate the scheme he runs. A coach uses the players he has to stop the other team. You cant force players to do what they don't have the talent to do. So, the good coach changes the scheme.

Top 10 in everything we do! Well, the Offense is. How fun to watch. That group has improved quickly (3 years) And I think it gets even better next year.

As a show of desire and commitment, I would relieve VM of his duties after the Tulane game. Have Buddy Wyatt take over for Bowl game. Show all that CM is serious and have new people in place for Jan 1. CM teaches about reality and this is what the team will see. Just like the real world... Get it done or someone else will.

Good point re transfers. Had a DT from South Carolina who started and a DE from 10RC...not to mention the aggy LB who hasn't played yet

yeah but the defensive decline started happening when Mixon (Tennessee) got hurt and Neals ( a 1 year JUCO sophomore transfer) missed Navy and I believe parts of 2 other games. We've been back-filling to replace those transfers in recent weeks. We don't have a South Carolina transfer either.

Pretty sure we got two years out of Deon Green did we not?

Anyway good call on Neals too..bolstering the point that we've had boosts in recruiting from 2 SEC transfers and a juco transfer on D since Chad has been here.

[Stallion]

yeah but Green graduated last year-I thought we are talking about the reasons for our poor defense in 2017

[One Trick Pony]

Might be that vodka and Redbull at 30000 feet HuYa

[RGV Pony]

Thought we weren't analyzing poor results in a single year.. Point is we've had and have P5 transfers and juco as well-a juco started at mlb the last half of 2015 also-so that's probably not going to be the elixir that cures what ails us.. Would love to see a DB or two transfer though.

[footballdad]

The players body language, effort, and mindset is a direct reflection of their head coach..............POOR.

Chad had/has 1 foot out the door. Late season losses seem to have ruined his plan. He's sad/mad/pissed that he'll actually have to stay to finish the job.

Highest paid G5 coach in the country...............poor guy!

[Stallion]

Example: was Auburn a total rebuild when they went 0-8 in the SEC West in 2012 the year before they went to the National Championship in 2013? No they had great recruiting classes all 5 years before 2013. 2012 was aberration. Probably a bunch of injuries, suspensions and tough losses in the SEC West. UCF similiarly was not a total rebuilt-they had recruited off their greatest victory in school history in the 2014 Fiesta Bowl. They've finished 1 or 2 every year in either total points or average points per recruit-they have the best talent in the entire conference in Frost's 2nd year. That not like the SMU job which bottomed out to historically bad Offense and Defense both statistically at the bottom of NCAA stats.

Was AppleBowden a savior savant Coach at Auburn in 1994 when he took Auburn to an undefeated season after Pat Dye won 2 games in SEC in 1993 or was he the beneficiary of great recruiting classes in the 4-5 years before he got the job and took them to an undefeated season. He wasn't so smart when recruiting declined under his control

Is Florida St a total rebuild after losing their QB in Game 1 and having an awful year. They've won like 3 games this year. Based on the last 4-5 recruiting classes they are more likely a bounce-back and might be a top team in 2018.

These are all examples of single year aberrations not situations requiring a total rebuild