Jimmy Tubbs...

[jtstang]

Exactly how or why that transpired, I don't know. But at this point noone else outside the actual decision makers knows either, and we may never.

And that's okay with you. How sad.

I find it funny you are outraged by the ethics involved in how Tubbs was fired yet have no qualms about the ethics involved in the fact that he did violate NCAA policies (regardless how minor they may be).

What policies are you talking about? Burgers and Cheer? Yeah, I guess I do find it outrageous that it's a firing offense at SMU. Just one more way we ARE NOT ON A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD WITH OTHER SCHOOLS. (TM, Stallion, Inc.)
And, as usual, you are wrong to boot. I find it completely unethical the way Max Williams set him up and I am outraged by it and I hope he gets banned for life as a booster for participating in it.

[SMU Football Blog]

I am sorry. I don't recall the letter of endorsement from DISD coaches for Bennett.

[jtstang]

I am sorry. I don't recall the letter of endorsement from DISD coaches for Bennett.

Funny, I don't remember Max Williams setting him up, either...

[Danny Noonan]

Look if you had to grade Phil Bennett on Dallas recruiting he would get a D so far. I honestly think that Tubbs has been in on more Top Dallas talent than Bennett has during the same period and there is about 10 times as many great football players in Dallas as there are Basketball players. We were in competition for just about every top Basketball player in Dallas while Bennett struck out even getting his [deleted] in the Door of the Top Football players in Dallas.

Didn't mean to make it appear that Bennett had done a good job in recruiting. Just saying HIS first real class was better than HIS others because he could tell recruits anything in year one. Now, player look at what Bennett has done over the last few years regarding record and development.

Would you disagree with the fact that there is a certain level of excitement surrounding a new coach that usually wears off after the second year? After that, you pretty much have to start defending your results on the field/court.

[SMU Football Blog]

I am sorry. I don't recall the letter of endorsement from DISD coaches for Bennett.

Funny, I don't remember Max Williams setting him up, either...

I was talking to Stallion.

[MustangIcon]

JT my point is you ARE outraged that you think Tubbs might have been unethically set up by Max Williams. Yet you refuse to put any blame on Tubbs for breaking the rules and have no ethical problems with that. Even if it is a small violation it IS STILL A VIOLATION. Tubbs broke some sort of rules, that is apparent. The extent of which at this point is unknown.

[jtstang]

Now, player look at what Bennett has done over the last few years regarding record and development.

Yeah, including the first winless season ever at SMU. By all means, let's give the man another extension.

[EastStang]

So you think any violation of NCAA rules no matter how trivial should result in a coach being fired, even if the coach is doing a good job. So, let's say Mac Brown was found to have committed these same trivial violations, should Texas fire him? To be consistent you would have to say, yes. And that would be crazy. Or to put it another way, should every person who steals a loaf of bread be executed?

[Danny Noonan]

Now, player look at what Bennett has done over the last few years regarding record and development.

Yeah, including the first winless season ever at SMU. By all means, let's give the man another extension.

My point was that Bennett has to answer to a winless season and no players in the NFL. In the beginning he didn't.

Tubbs was going to have to start answering the same questions when it comes to recruiting. The honeymoon was over, and there was nothing to show from it.

[MustangIcon]

No, I never said that he should be fired bc of the violations. I am saying that they exist and you must admit that it IS a violation of the rules if you are going to at the same time be screaming about Max Williams involvement being less than ethical.

[Hoop Fan]

are you guys thinking clearly? The new guy will inevitably have to fight through the same basic performance issue two years from now once his honeymoon ends. Bennett fought through it and now appears to be on an upswing now that he has his program in place. Meanwhile, alot of you (not all) were the exact same ones on here saying he wasnt worth a damn and had to be fired back in 2003.

[DickerJames]

JT my point is you ARE outraged that you think Tubbs might have been unethically set up by Max Williams.

I want to know why YOU are not outraged by the report of a players grandfather saying he gave Tubbs money to buy burgers and then screamed when burgers were bought. This same grandfather with ties to worst thing that ever happened to this shcool. BTW, Tubbs said he used his own money which as I understand is'nt a violation.

[Hoop Fan]

did Max mark his dollar bills? Proper accounting is one thing, but funds are fungible. If you can buy burgers under the rules, then you can buy burgers. Nevermind, I dont care, its all too funny.

[Ponymon]

My biggest complaint was local recruiting. Generally, when a new coach comes in there is an excitement in the air like there was with Tubbs. There's usually a two year honeymoon (see Bennett) with recruits where the coach can sell the future. At that time, he doesn't have a record to defend, and the sky is the limit for the program.

Tubbs came in with that excitement, and the backing of the local coaches, and delivered little to nothing in local recruiting. I imagine the administration saw the same thing, wondering as I was, if years one and two produced so little, how bad were years three and four going to be after two awful seasons?

Again, I don't think any coach should be canned after 2 years. I think the reasons are chicken****, or the withholding of the reasons is stupid. But I had my concerns, and evidently wasn't the only one. For whatever reason, the guys in charge decided the best thing to do was cut our losses and take the heat. I can only hope it was because they saw a window of opportunity with a certain coach or two. We've proven before that we're not always smart enough to have a plan, however.

Tubbs really only had 1 year to recruit. The first year he was stuck with several of Dement's recruits and only had the spring to bring any fillers, like Ike in. While I also was concerned about the local recruiting, he did bring in Morris, Willingham, and Fall who were well rated by Rivals. My major disappointment has been that the school hasn't done anything, like upgrading its 50 year old facilities, to help him out. I think he deserved at least one more year. The timing on this says to me that Orsini wanted to bring in his own guy.

[DickerJames]

Tubbs really only had 1 year to recruit. The first year he was stuck with several of Dement's recruits and only had the spring to bring any fillers, like Ike in. While I also was concerned about the local recruiting, he did bring in Morris, Willingham, and Fall who were well rated by Rivals. My major disappointment has been that the school hasn't done anything, like upgrading its 50 year old facilities, to help him out. I think he deserved at least one more year. The timing on this says to me that Orsini wanted to bring in his own guy.

I agree with you on everything except the Orsini theory, or should I say I don't want to believe it. I think his hiring is the best thing SMU has pulled off in quite some time, and I refuse to believe that someone with his reputation and qualifications would be involved in Grampsgate. I also believe Copeland was nudged into "retirement", so why would he do his replacements dirty work.

I am thrilled that Copeland will not be making this hire.