Big 12 makes deal

[SoCal_Pony]

FF, i don’t think anyone disagrees with what you are saying about TCU.

If you asked PF posters to grade TCU’s administration over the past 35 years, they would receive an A.

The frustration shown by many, certainly myself, I think Maroons and others, is the total incompetency of our own administration over the same 35 years. Pye was a train wreck. RGT slightly better but more destructive given his longevity. I would give our leadership an F. Probably PFs would give it a C-

Look at my post ‘Does Dallas Deserve More than SMU’ i did years ago. Maroons badmouths our administration constantly (good for him).

And our frustration is felt deeper by us because it’s OUR undergraduate school, not yours. No different than your feelings about TCU over SMU (posting as FF is a dead giveaway).

Regardless, you say the gap is closing (we agree), you say the gap it is close to non-existent (i don’t agree, but realize it could eventually). I think where you and disagree is on Dallas vs FW. I say the upside for SMU is much higher. We simply need new leadership.

If SMU had TCU’s leadership and TCU had ours, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

[NavyCrimson]

Well said!!!

[Mustangs_Maroons]

SMU IS the better school, better reputation, better academic quality if programs. It’s nos really close, but I get it you’re a tcu alumn.

a) I am alumn of both; and
b) This thinking is insane. It is "that" close. I do not know how to describe it to you outside of crayons. TCU and SMU are millimeters in rankings. Your own Dean of Admissions mentions this. He says TCU, not Rice, is SMU's largest competitive threat academically over the next 3yrs and the University should place resources to protect the position.

I tried to be respectful to you. You did not extend the same courtesy. I can’t help you can’t accept you went to an INFERIOR school that is ranked lower by any relevant metric of student quality. The average SAT difference between SMU and TCU is around 135 points, the difference btw SMU and rice is 160 or so. living in the northeast, it’s not uncommon for top private schools here actually consistently have some students attend SMU, but not TCU. It’s the same reason why we compete more for out of state students that will apply to schools such as Virginia. One of the problems with SMU is the outside reputation of being an expensive school so we get less overall applicants and we also don’t get more applicants than other schools such as Baylor (or even tcu) get just because we’re not a P5 program, and it’s not as “cool” than to go to a B12 game against OU or UT. But don’t confuse more applications with better quality applicants, in this case. These additional aren’t necessarily the best students but it does increase the number of applicants. Take St Marks in Dallas as another example, one of the top private schools in the state. It sends the most students to UT Austin and SMU (even though we have a much smaller student population).

Anyways I’m done with you on your delusional position just because you want to prop up your own undergraduate school. If you want to get crayons, knock yourself out, I can get you a nice coloring book for you to see if you can keep the coloring within the lines.

[Mustangs_Maroons]

FF, i don’t think anyone disagrees with what you are saying about TCU.

If you asked PF posters to grade TCU’s administration over the past 35 years, they would receive an A.

The frustration shown by many, certainly myself, I think Maroons and others, is the total incompetency of our own administration over the same 35 years. Pye was a train wreck. RGT slightly better but more destructive given his longevity. I would give our leadership an F. Probably PFs would give it a C-

Look at my post ‘Does Dallas Deserve More than SMU’ i did years ago. Maroons badmouths our administration constantly (good for him).

And our frustration is felt deeper by us because it’s OUR undergraduate school, not yours. No different than your feelings about TCU over SMU (posting as FF is a dead giveaway).

Regardless, you say the gap is closing (we agree), you say the gap it is close to non-existent (i don’t agree, but realize it could eventually). I think where you and disagree is on Dallas vs FW. I say the upside for SMU is much higher. We simply need new leadership.

If SMU had TCU’s leadership and TCU had ours, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

Well said Socal_Pony!! . With new leadership at the helm of SMU, the sky is the limit.

[gostangs]

SMU IS the better school, better reputation, better academic quality if programs. It’s nos really close, but I get it you’re a tcu alumn.

a) I am alumn of both; and
b) This thinking is insane. It is "that" close. I do not know how to describe it to you outside of crayons. TCU and SMU are millimeters in rankings. Your own Dean of Admissions mentions this. He says TCU, not Rice, is SMU's largest competitive threat academically over the next 3yrs and the University should place resources to protect the position.

I tried to be respectful to you. You did not extend the same courtesy. I can’t help you can’t accept you went to an INFERIOR school that is ranked lower by any relevant metric of student quality. The average SAT difference between SMU and TCU is around 135 points, the difference btw SMU and rice is 160 or so. living in the northeast, it’s not uncommon for top private schools here actually consistently have some students attend SMU, but not TCU. It’s the same reason why we compete more for out of state students that will apply to schools such as Virginia. One of the problems with SMU is the outside reputation of being an expensive school so we get less overall applicants and we also don’t get more applicants than other schools such as Baylor (or even tcu) get just because we’re not a P5 program, and it’s not as “cool” than to go to a B12 game against OU or UT. But don’t confuse more applications with better quality applicants, in this case. These additional aren’t necessarily the best students but it does increase the number of applicants. Take St Marks in Dallas as another example, one of the top private schools in the state. It sends the most students to UT Austin and SMU (even though we have a much smaller student population).

Anyways I’m done with you on your delusional position just because you want to prop up your own undergraduate school. If you want to get crayons, knock yourself out, I can get you a nice coloring book for you to see if you can keep the coloring within the lines.

SMU IS the better school, better reputation, better academic quality if programs. It’s nos really close, but I get it you’re a tcu alumn.

a) I am alumn of both; and
b) This thinking is insane. It is "that" close. I do not know how to describe it to you outside of crayons. TCU and SMU are millimeters in rankings. Your own Dean of Admissions mentions this. He says TCU, not Rice, is SMU's largest competitive threat academically over the next 3yrs and the University should place resources to protect the position.

This is just factually untrue. The student quality between the two universities is miles apart. In fact the TCU student quality is roughly equivalent to the average SMU student ATHLETE numbers. I have seen the information (the exact same info presented to our board as to who our peer schools are) and it is not close. We are closer to you in football than you are us academically - and we aren't close to you in football.

[gostangs]

Just to add some color to this - out of the most recent Princeton Review :
SMU - SAT range of attending students - 1350-1490. ACT - 31-34
TCU - SAT range of attending students - 1140 -1345 ACT 26-31

Anyone who knows about standardized testing realizes those groups of students would be on different planets academically.

[FroggieFever]

Just to add some color to this - out of the most recent Princeton Review :
SMU - SAT range of attending students - 1350-1490. ACT - 31-34
TCU - SAT range of attending students - 1140 -1345 ACT 26-31

Anyone who knows about standardized testing realizes those groups of students would be on different planets academically.

gostangs: Your own DoA, LAST MONTH, said at TACAC it is (quote) "time to go the TCU route and look beyond standardized testing." That is what TCU did ten yrs ago. Admissions realized, like many highly selective universities are, that standardized testing is not indicative of the quality of the student.

TCU focuses on core classes, for example, far above an ACT/SAT score. SMU is starting to do the same.

I encourage you to sit down with Elena. I know her well and she will validate everything I just said.

Regardless, the two schools are so close together. Far closer than twenty years ago.

[FroggieFever]

SMU IS the better school, better reputation, better academic quality if programs. It’s nos really close, but I get it you’re a tcu alumn.

a) I am alumn of both; and
b) This thinking is insane. It is "that" close. I do not know how to describe it to you outside of crayons. TCU and SMU are millimeters in rankings. Your own Dean of Admissions mentions this. He says TCU, not Rice, is SMU's largest competitive threat academically over the next 3yrs and the University should place resources to protect the position.

I tried to be respectful to you. You did not extend the same courtesy. I can’t help you can’t accept you went to an INFERIOR school that is ranked lower by any relevant metric of student quality. The average SAT difference between SMU and TCU is around 135 points, the difference btw SMU and rice is 160 or so. living in the northeast, it’s not uncommon for top private schools here actually consistently have some students attend SMU, but not TCU. It’s the same reason why we compete more for out of state students that will apply to schools such as Virginia. One of the problems with SMU is the outside reputation of being an expensive school so we get less overall applicants and we also don’t get more applicants than other schools such as Baylor (or even tcu) get just because we’re not a P5 program, and it’s not as “cool” than to go to a B12 game against OU or UT. But don’t confuse more applications with better quality applicants, in this case. These additional aren’t necessarily the best students but it does increase the number of applicants. Take St Marks in Dallas as another example, one of the top private schools in the state. It sends the most students to UT Austin and SMU (even though we have a much smaller student population).

Anyways I’m done with you on your delusional position just because you want to prop up your own undergraduate school. If you want to get crayons, knock yourself out, I can get you a nice coloring book for you to see if you can keep the coloring within the lines.

I use that phrase in the workplace but certainly not as an insult. My apologies.

[tristatecoog]

Closer than twenty years ago, yes. TCU has made strong improvement in both academics and athletics over the last generation. While some strong Dallas students attend TCU over SMU, it typically comes down to money and wanting to be farther from home. From my kids' HS, SMU overlapped with higher ranked schools than TCU and average student attending SMU was quite a bit stronger.

As Maroons mentioned, SMU is a much bigger national draw of top students and/or wealthy students. Harvard Westlake HS in LA is an example. Over the three years ending 2020, two students applied to TCU and Baylor. One to A&M. UT had 35. SMU had 57, of which 55 were admitted, and it seems to show the pull from top schools and Elena Hicks' knowledge that HW has wealthy and well-prepared students. Kenyon, IU and Colgate are other national draws that favor HW grads.
https://students.hw.com/Portals/44/2022Handbook.pdf

For the most part, SMU students aren't drawn by sports. Success can bring more attention and applications.

There is clearly a much larger gap between Rice and SMU than between SMU and TCU. Arguably, Miami FL (or Tulane) is about the same gap to SMU as SMU to TCU. TCU has done a great job and is aggressive. From what I've heard, Wes Waggoner has done a very good job at SMU and was taken from TCU a decade ago. Maybe TCU replaced him with an equal. Regardless, in admissions, there is strong competition up and down the ranking scale especially with cost in mind.

[SoCal_Pony]

I’ll add something else.

TCU’s own ex-AD Chris Del Conte said “One is Cowtown, and the other is Cosmopolitan.”

The posts here are referencing state vs nationwide students.

I agree that nationwide we are more desirable, but going forward, a bigger and bigger component will be international students, many from Asia. By bet is these students will be attracted even more so to Cosmopolitan Dallas over Cowtown.

[FroggieFever]

There is clearly a much larger gap between Rice and SMU than between SMU and TCU.

I do not disagree.

From what I've heard, Wes Waggoner has done a very good job at SMU and was taken from TCU a decade ago. Maybe TCU replaced him with an equal. Regardless, in admissions, there is strong competition up and down the ranking scale especially with cost in mind.

Ray Brown hired Wes up from Fort Worth Country Day. Wes wanted the TCU job when Ray was going to retire, and that was the plan, but when SMU became available Wes jumped and it was an all-star hire. Wes is one of the best in the country and has no desire to ever leave SMU. Ray retired in 2016 and his successor, Heath Einstein, was also one of his hand-picks and has been outstanding. Both offices (SMU and TCU) have incredible leadership.

[FroggieFever]

FF, i don’t think anyone disagrees with what you are saying about TCU.

If you asked PF posters to grade TCU’s administration over the past 35 years, they would receive an A.

The frustration shown by many, certainly myself, I think Maroons and others, is the total incompetency of our own administration over the same 35 years. Pye was a train wreck. RGT slightly better but more destructive given his longevity. I would give our leadership an F. Probably PFs would give it a C-

Look at my post ‘Does Dallas Deserve More than SMU’ i did years ago. Maroons badmouths our administration constantly (good for him).

And our frustration is felt deeper by us because it’s OUR undergraduate school, not yours. No different than your feelings about TCU over SMU (posting as FF is a dead giveaway).

Regardless, you say the gap is closing (we agree), you say the gap it is close to non-existent (i don’t agree, but realize it could eventually). I think where you and disagree is on Dallas vs FW. I say the upside for SMU is much higher. We simply need new leadership.

If SMU had TCU’s leadership and TCU had ours, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

Well said.

[mtrout]

If we can't beat em in football, we'll beat em in school
I'm just sick of being shoved in a locker by TCU 80% of the time.

[Peruna94&07]

Simple way of looking at where SMU and TCU are academically is my son.

He was offered 2nd year admission to SMU and got 1st year to TCU including the business school.

Pretty straight forward


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FroggieFever]

Simple way of looking at where SMU and TCU are academically is my son.

He was offered 2nd year admission to SMU and got 1st year to TCU including the business school.

Pretty straight forward


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sweet. Good for him. (Seriously.)