No more badmouthing for Turner and Hart

[1983 Cotton Bowl]

Turner has never gotten enough respect for his contributions in sports. He may deserve blame for other areas of the school, but not our athletic department.

It's Turner almost by himself who got an On-Campus stadium built and did so with a MASSIVE amount of financial and political capital.
It's Turner who had the balls to hire Larry Brown, for good or bad.
It's Turner who helped champion June Jones, definitely for good.
Turner has absolutely been at the forefront of evolving conference realignement, and did so at SM-freakin'-U.
It's Turner who has helped change the perception of us as force in collegiate sports, from a fan, coaching, and alumni standpoint.

If our history should teach any fan of collegiate athletics ANYTHING it's that moneymen are nothing without solid leadership and for all of his faults he has absolutely led in this area.
I would have openly snorted at the shot to going to the ACC. It's Turner who put us in this position.

I tend to agree. For many years I've watched comments on this board by many posters implying that any progress SMU athletics has made has been in spite of Turner, and not because of him. I certainly don't give Turner all the credit; this couldn't have been done without the doners. And I don't think Turner is perfect and has never made a mistake. But I do believe strongly this would not have happened without him playing a key role. And as far as being 27 years late, I'm not sure what people expected. I remember what SMU athletics was like when Turner got here, the pitiful state of our FB and BB programs, and the rather toxic relationship between athletics and the rest of the university that existed post-DP. It's taken a long time to come fully back from that, but I've seen massive progress in all areas spanning the last 25 years. Ford Stadium, Moody reno, new tennis facility, new natatorium, soccer stadium reno, revised admissions standards (a very touchy subject that required a ton of politicking), etc. The list goes on and on. And the fact that Miller mentioned that he received calls from several deans thanking him for the ACC thing tells me a lot about the behind-the-scenes work that has been done to repair the relationship between the academic university and the athletics department. That was never going to be a 36 month project. Yeah it took a very long time. But SMU athletics was a trainwreck when Turner got here and now look at it. This would not have happened if he was not on board.

[Insane_Pony_Posse]

If anything this is the perfect time for Turner to ride off into the sunset.

Agreed...

Gerald Turner will 78 years old in November and has been SMU President for 28 years.

It's time to let a younger person take the reins as we move into this new era.

[Mexmustang]

So, does the fact that he was charged as fixing athletics as a pre-condition to his current contract extension, forgive the man for sitting on his arse for almost three decades forgive him. What do I tell those fanatic Mustangs that passed during that time and will never have the chance to see our program rise again? Sorry?

[Water Pony]

Turner has hardly sat on his [deleted] during his tenure.

I can't imagine any realistic scenario where we could have achieved a move to an ideal destination such as the ACC; much less be invited to any P5/P4 earlier. With the BigXII unwilling to reach out due to the wishes of our former SWC friends, there was no shot.

35 years in the desert was painful, but perhaps it took that much time to raise money, build facilities, hire better coaches, enhance academics, etc. No major bullet or bullying by us could have changed the final timeline.

[Insane_Pony_Posse]

35 years in the desert was painful, but perhaps it took that much time to raise money, build facilities, hire better coaches, enhance academics, etc. No major bullet or bullying by us could have changed the final timeline.

TCU was pitiful and turned it around by having the right committed people in place. Sure TCU didn't get the DP, but they were still pitiful. That's the ONLY reason I like TCU, because they take 35 year excuse makers like you to the woodshed! "Oh we are a small school"....so is TCU! "Oh we are in the DFW market competing with the Cowboys"...so is TCU! "Oh we are a private school"....so is TCU. After our DP and TCU was pitiful...TCU made it to the Rose Bowl and National Championship. We have not won a conference championship in football since 1984! That is NOT because we got the DP, it's because we had the wrong people in charge. There is no excuse for ZERO football conference titles since 1984 considering the conferences we have been in.

[Nedward]

TCU as a whole got aligned and made the decision to move forward on lockstep with their athletics.

If you think Turner, Copeland etc had absolute power to dictate things well then I really don't know what to say. Other than an absolute ignorance of how a university is run and how toxic the relationship was between academics and athletics just 20 years ago. But keep living in your delusional reality.

[orguy]

Sorry, but this is thanks to our champion donors. Turner was slow to change. Hart bungled the re-seat in basketball. Our amazing alum mega-donors did 99% of the work and their money and persistence have helped mask most of Hart's mistakes. If anything this is the perfect time for Turner to ride off into the sunset and for SMU to hire a young hungry president eager to move SMU into the top 50 nationally and closer to AAU status. This would also be a great opportunity to get an AD who knows what he is doing, but at this point it appears Hart is simply a figurehead so as long as Miller knows what he is doing and keeps impulding SMU forward I'm ok with him sticking around. If that is the case we better have the best compliance officer in the country to make sure SMU stays out of trouble.

This.

Abilene is calling Turner home! Too old. A young hungry president is needed to halt the academic
decline! US NEWS rankings matter. Whether Turner wishes to acknowledge reality or not. Only
ego and rote hubris prevents him from retiring.

[orguy]

Turner has never gotten enough respect for his contributions in sports. He may deserve blame for other areas of the school, but not our athletic department.

It's Turner almost by himself who got an On-Campus stadium built and did so with a MASSIVE amount of financial and political capital.
It's Turner who had the balls to hire Larry Brown, for good or bad.
It's Turner who helped champion June Jones, definitely for good.
Turner has absolutely been at the forefront of evolving conference realignement, and did so at SM-freakin'-U.
It's Turner who has helped change the perception of us as force in collegiate sports, from a fan, coaching, and alumni standpoint.

If our history should teach any fan of collegiate athletics ANYTHING it's that moneymen are nothing without solid leadership and for all of his faults he has absolutely led in this area.
I would have openly snorted at the shot to going to the ACC. It's Turner who put us in this position.

Always guys like you. If SMU progresssed to a great "teachers college" with a concomitant
decrease in overall academic quality you would be happy. Keep pushing for SMU to be the finest teachers college West of the Mississippi! Turner will always be, like your hollow perception
of "leadership", dammed by faint praise!

[Mustangs_Maroons]

Sorry, but this is thanks to our champion donors. Turner was slow to change. Hart bungled the re-seat in basketball. Our amazing alum mega-donors did 99% of the work and their money and persistence have helped mask most of Hart's mistakes. If anything this is the perfect time for Turner to ride off into the sunset and for SMU to hire a young hungry president eager to move SMU into the top 50 nationally and closer to AAU status. This would also be a great opportunity to get an AD who knows what he is doing, but at this point it appears Hart is simply a figurehead so as long as Miller knows what he is doing and keeps impulding SMU forward I'm ok with him sticking around. If that is the case we better have the best compliance officer in the country to make sure SMU stays out of trouble.

Agree with this - although i give Hart a bit more credit in managing an athletic department that is always 30 million a year behind our competitors. That is not easy - and he has generally done a good job hiring coaches. He is not super good at glad handing so fortunately we have alums who take it on themselves to attack the issues at hand. Turner has done some great stuff but also missed the mark on timing - in 27 years everyone can point to things they have done well and things they missed.

one correction - we will never be AAU without a med school. R1 yes (and soon) but we will never get AAU status.

I hope that’s note the case. In this report published in 2018, there was a 10-year plan, and one of those was to be on a trajectory toward AAU membership. We are halfway through that plan. We need to hold people (and Turner) responsible for status of this. R1 is great, and you essentially need to be R1 to become an AAU school, but there are some private schools (ie, Brandeis, ND and Rice) that do not have medical schools. Also, with Miami now an AAU, DFW is the only top 10 metroplex without a school that is an AAU member.

https://www.smu.edu/-/media/Site/Provos ... Ascent.pdf

Future Aspirations: The 14 recommendations presented in the present document will be addressed during a ten-year span. The ten-year period will include the seven remaining years of Launching SMU’s Second Century, 2016-2025 Strategic Plan and will then span the initial years of its successor.
In terms of future aspirations, at the end of a 10-year investment period, we expect SMU to exhibit new characteristics such as:
• Be on a trajectory toward possible future AAU membership by tracking progress against phase 1 and phase 2 metrics for AAU membership.
• Be ranked consistently in the top-50 on USN&WR’s ranking of national universities.
• Have an incoming class average ACT score equal to or higher than the average of the
Colonial Group universities.
• Increase the number of doctoral programs ranked among the top-50 in the nation.
• Have third-semester retention and six-year graduation rates equal to or higher than the
average of the Colonial Group universities.
• Have annual research expenditures of at least $50 million and on a trajectory toward
$100 million.
• Double the number of faculty members holding national and international awards (e.g.,

[orguy]

Sorry, but this is thanks to our champion donors. Turner was slow to change. Hart bungled the re-seat in basketball. Our amazing alum mega-donors did 99% of the work and their money and persistence have helped mask most of Hart's mistakes. If anything this is the perfect time for Turner to ride off into the sunset and for SMU to hire a young hungry president eager to move SMU into the top 50 nationally and closer to AAU status. This would also be a great opportunity to get an AD who knows what he is doing, but at this point it appears Hart is simply a figurehead so as long as Miller knows what he is doing and keeps impulding SMU forward I'm ok with him sticking around. If that is the case we better have the best compliance officer in the country to make sure SMU stays out of trouble.

Agree with this - although i give Hart a bit more credit in managing an athletic department that is always 30 million a year behind our competitors. That is not easy - and he has generally done a good job hiring coaches. He is not super good at glad handing so fortunately we have alums who take it on themselves to attack the issues at hand. Turner has done some great stuff but also missed the mark on timing - in 27 years everyone can point to things they have done well and things they missed.

one correction - we will never be AAU without a med school. R1 yes (and soon) but we will never get AAU status.

I hope that’s note the case. In this report published in 2018, there was a 10-year plan, and one of those was to be on a trajectory toward AAU membership. We are halfway through that plan. We need to hold people (and Turner) responsible for status of this. R1 is great, and you essentially need to be R1 to become an AAU school, but there are some private schools (ie, Brandeis, ND and Rice) that do not have medical schools. Also, with Miami now an AAU, DFW is the only top 10 metroplex without a school that is an AAU member.

https://www.smu.edu/-/media/Site/Provos ... Ascent.pdf

Future Aspirations: The 14 recommendations presented in the present document will be addressed during a ten-year span. The ten-year period will include the seven remaining years of Launching SMU’s Second Century, 2016-2025 Strategic Plan and will then span the initial years of its successor.
In terms of future aspirations, at the end of a 10-year investment period, we expect SMU to exhibit new characteristics such as:
• Be on a trajectory toward possible future AAU membership by tracking progress against phase 1 and phase 2 metrics for AAU membership.
• Be ranked consistently in the top-50 on USN&WR’s ranking of national universities.
• Have an incoming class average ACT score equal to or higher than the average of the
Colonial Group universities.
• Increase the number of doctoral programs ranked among the top-50 in the nation.
• Have third-semester retention and six-year graduation rates equal to or higher than the
average of the Colonial Group universities.
• Have annual research expenditures of at least $50 million and on a trajectory toward
$100 million.
• Double the number of faculty members holding national and international awards (e.g.,

SMU finds itself in the same position it was in 40 years ago only slightly worse. Miami, Tulane,
Georgia, Clemson, and Syracuse have all eclipsed us rankings wise. Rice, Brown, Emory and
Brandeis will always be ranked ahead of us. No shame in that. As for Georgia? Clemson?
Hitler Youth Academy ( aggie)? inexusable. Pye and Turner are responsible but not
accountable. Shameful.

UTSA and South Florida are both R1. AAU, given our culture, is going to be hard to
achieve sans a med school. Too few Science, Engineering and hard Humanities majors.
Too many Communications and now ( thanx laura B ): Education majors. The Greek
system is still out of control and depends on these fluff majors to exist. Truth hurts
but reality is often difficult to cope with.

Our entry into the ACC will help but ultimately SMU needs new leadership if we are
to keep up academically. I wish to be associated with an AAU level school with a
reputation for solid academics. I am thankful Miller and other donors have worked hard
such that we are now in the ACC. The next step is new leadership in the academic arena
regardless of how hard it is to ignore the status quo and move forward.

[Insane_Pony_Posse]

TCU as a whole got aligned and made the decision to move forward on lockstep with their athletics. If you think Turner, Copeland etc had absolute power to dictate things well then I really don't know what to say. .

Do you think TCU would have seen the football success they have had with Turner and Rick Hart in charge?

[ALEX LIFESON]

35 years in the desert was painful, but perhaps it took that much time to raise money, build facilities, hire better coaches, enhance academics, etc. No major bullet or bullying by us could have changed the final timeline.

TCU was pitiful and turned it around by having the right committed people in place. Sure TCU didn't get the DP, but they were still pitiful. That's the ONLY reason I like TCU, because they take 35 year excuse makers like you to the woodshed! "Oh we are a small school"....so is TCU! "Oh we are in the DFW market competing with the Cowboys"...so is TCU! "Oh we are a private school"....so is TCU. After our DP and TCU was pitiful...TCU made it to the Rose Bowl and National Championship. We have not won a conference championship in football since 1984! That is NOT because we got the DP, it's because we had the wrong people in charge. There is no excuse for ZERO football conference titles since 1984 considering the conferences we have been in.

Boom!

[PonyTime]

Slow clap for Turner. About damn time. I will absolutely give the guy credit for getting this done. This will cement his legacy. But also - it is time for him to retire and hand the baton to someone else.

We are now in a conference with a school that created an entire program of fake classes to offer to their student athletes and barely received a slap on the wrist.

We are now in a conference that had an entire program of recruiting their students athletes that involved coaches hiring hookers for recruiting weekends.

We are now in a conference with the U.

Let's just say that SMU starts to beat those teams due to our ability to out-recruit and out fund student athletes. I can assure you that the NCAA will come after SMU in no time. We now have a much bigger target on our back from the ACC schools at the top as well as all of the Texas schools who are now more threatened by our recruiting.

Next time a Larry Brown figure runs into the NCAA for some extremely minor and perhaps unprovable events involving some kid taking a high school test, SMU and the admin better have that coach's back and not immediately bend over for the NCAA.

[Dukie]

Slow clap for Turner. About damn time. I will absolutely give the guy credit for getting this done. This will cement his legacy. But also - it is time for him to retire and hand the baton to someone else.

We are now in a conference with a school that created an entire program of fake classes to offer to their student athletes and barely received a slap on the wrist.

We are now in a conference that had an entire program of recruiting their students athletes that involved coaches hiring hookers for recruiting weekends.

We are now in a conference with the U.

Let's just say that SMU starts to beat those teams due to our ability to out-recruit and out fund student athletes. I can assure you that the NCAA will come after SMU in no time. We now have a much bigger target on our back from the ACC schools at the top as well as all of the Texas schools who are now more threatened by our recruiting.

Next time a Larry Brown figure runs into the NCAA for some extremely minor and perhaps unprovable events involving some kid taking a high school test, SMU and the admin better have that coach's back and not immediately bend over for the NCAA.

That last paragraph is why it's time for new leadership. You have to fight the NCAA, period, when things happen.

And by the way, every single post in this thread is why creating this thread was a terrible, divisive idea. There was no way anything was going to happen here except rehashing all of the criticisms.

[Roach]

This is not about assigning credit or blame here. What matters here is the result, and it is cause for celebration. Credit Turner, Hart, Miller or your family dog if you want.

All that matters here is that we're going to the ACC. Celebrate it and enjoy.