Ole Miss' Reasons for Ditching Mascot Silly

[Water Pony]

N&C:

Easy on Davish. If even half of what you purport was accurate, then the South had no reason to secede.

[MustangKurt20]

General Grant upon hearing a reporter ask him why he fought a war to end slavery despite the fact he himself owned more than twenty slaves.

"I fought to PRESERVE the Union, not to abolish slavery. If I had thought for a second that's what this war was about, I would have given my sword to the other side"

Kurt

[Water Pony]

Kurt:

I would't go there. Motives on the northern side aren't the issue and were equally as complex.

The South was driven out by their leaders on the fear they couldn't perpetuate their unique society. There was no States Right issue in Jan-April 1861 that forced them out. The election of Lincoln drove them over the edge.

Perserving the Union was the issue for the North. Abolition was secondary. For the South, preservation of the their society and economy and all that required was primary.

[This message has been edited by Water Pony (edited 07-16-2003).]

[smudad]

Most historians, Elizabeth Wright and Thomas Sowell among them, both black, concede that slavery was at least about to die a natural death. That doesn't justify it. It's just a fact. And as one poster has already stated, young men and boys in the South were not about to fight and die to preserve an institution in which they held absolutely no stake. In fact, slavery probably worked against many common Southerners economically. Rather, those folks fought and died, right or wrong, for the right to throw off what they perceived as Northern 'enslavement' of the South over their right to make a living - much like Texans felt over gas and oil levies early last century.

In fact, those exacting their revenge after the war, mostly whites from the North, not freed slaves, insured feelings of enmity for years to come. And the more our society attempts to make citizens of today, pay for the wrongs of 150-200 years ago, the harder the feelings become. And it will continue to get worse - not better.

[MustangKurt20]

I think its interesting no one has brought up the issue of tariffs and their affect on events that led up to The War Between the States. In 1832 South Carolina was two steps away from secession over the rising tariff rate. In 1861 when Lincoln was asked why he was about to wage an illegal war on the South he replied " I can't let them go! Who would pay for the government?" Many historians estimate that the southern states paid for nearly 80 percent of government spending. Protectionist policies in the north were a big factor as well. Again, I'm not trying to say that slavery was not a major factor in secession. There's no question that it was. However, other issues were equally if not more central to the Confederate idea of a state's right to determine its own destiny.

Kurt

[OldPony]

Chivalry was born in the South? I suggest you look up the root of that word.
I agree with whoever said to let Ole Miss fight their own fights. The Flag and Dixie are symbols which, unfortunately, have been coopted by extremist groups and a lot of rednecks. They offend a large part of our society.
Most important, would you want to try recruiting a good athletic team with those as your symbols. Talk about working from a disadvantage.
BTW-I hear some Mustangs are about to revolt against our continued use of their likeness. They think we are portraying them as losers who are not willing to do what is necessary to win f'ball and basketball games. In the old days when we won, it was OK but now they are mad. They are not a happy group!!!

[MustangKurt20]

Like you said OldPony, groups have confiscated the Confederate flag as a symbol of hatred and . Its a shame but that's just how things have played out despite the fact that the uses the American flag just as much as the Confederate flag. It is probably a disadvantage in recruiting minority athletes and I can understand Ole Miss wanting to remake their image in that regard. And to the guy who said the northern motives aren't important...that's rediculous dude. Motives on both sides should be studied closely and remembered for what they are. The Emancipation Proclamation was no more than a political move made possible by the Northern "victory" (debatable whether it was a victory) at Anteitam in 1862. Had the South lost the war before this time slavery would have survived in the South and probably been protected constitutionally. Try these quotes out for size.

"If I could save the Union without freeing one slave I would do it, some slaves and others not I would do it, or all the slaves. It matters not so much as the preservation of the Union." Abraham Lincoln

"Any people, anywhere, being so inclined have the right to rise up and shake off their existing government for one that better suits them. This is a most sacred right." Abraham Lincoln 1848

"No state has the right to leave the Union. In essence, secession is the prelude to ." Abraham Lincoln 1861

Now tell me what changed his tune boys?

Kurt

[Water Pony]

I am a bit amazed with the rationalization going on. I guess it should halt now before a recruit reads any more.

Abe desparately wanted to preserve the Union. Thank God he did. And I didn't say northern motives were unimportant; I said they weren't the issue. The south seceded, not the north. If you believe the north was enslaving the south, you have taken your rationalization to a point that I will not engage in. Believe what you want.

[NavyCrimson]

smudad - you're exactly right on all counts.

[Stallion]

to those that rationalize the continued use of the Confederate flags and other symbols of the Confederacy-would you feel as comfortable rationalizing the use of the Nazi flag in Germany-certainly to minorities the Confederate flag represents much of the same emotions as the Nazi flag did to Jewish people. Its time to move into the 21st Century.

[OlePony]

Occasionally Stallion gets one right on. OP is also right. It doesn't matter what has happened with the reputation of the flag or who is doing it. It is offensive to many. Stop waving it.

[MustangKurt20]

You guys are amazing. So should we never fly Old Glory (the original flag of the American colonies) because slavery was prevelant throughout all the colonies? The Confederacy lost before it had a chance to free the slaves. Slavery would have died of natural causes. There was simply too much internal and external political pressure for it to last much longer.

Kurt

[MrMustang1965]

I think we've just found a way to solve the NCAA realignment problem with this thread! TEXAS (the state) secedes from the union (lots of folks have been calling for that action for years!) and we start our own collegiate football association and conferences in the Republic of Texas! Think about it: how many teams would there be to draw from in the Div.1-A, Div.1-AA, JUCO, etc. ranks? We'd never have to leave the country to play a game! And the Texas economy would BOOM! That's it! Let's secede...and say the hell with the NCAA and the BCS! We could have our own bowls here, too! We've already got several...we'd add a few more and the networks would be knocking down our doors to televise TEXAS college football!

(I will now remove my firmly planted tongue from my cheek!)

Well, one thing's for sure...no one can say that we aren't a lively, debatable bunch of Mustangs on this board! It's refreshing to see such posts in comparison to the drab that I read on other boards.

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"Winning ain't everything...but it's a lot more fun than the alternative!" S.M.U. SPIRIT: IT STARTS NOW!

[Water Pony]

Mr 1965:

Thanks for taking a bit of the wind out of this thread with humor. God knows we need it.