Question for JTSTANG

[jtstang]

I disagree. I think Copeland was pushed into retirement or faced firing, and why would he be inclined to take the fall for his successor? You are also forgetting that Gramps got the ball rolling long before we were in need of a new athletic director.

Maybe my memory is fading, but didn't the whole Tubbs thing happen after Copeland had his kidney surgery and announced his decision to retire? I mean, whether he was forced to or not? And wasn't Tubbs fired right before the announcement of Orisini's hiring? I don't really want to go back and look at all this stuff, so somebody with a better memory than I will have to straighten this out.

[DickerJames]

And wasn't Tubbs fired right before the announcement of Orisini's hiring? I don't really want to go back and look at all this stuff, so somebody with a better memory than I will have to straighten this out.

You are correct about when Tubbs was fired, but Gramps got the ball rolling on Burger Gate long before that. Also, Gramps and Orsini would have to have been in collusion for the debacle to have been his desire to make a hiring "splash".

As for Big Jim being forced to retire, that is just my opinion. Why would he leave a cushy job when he is still in his 50's?

[mrydel]

And mrydel brings up a good point. I have no doubt Orsini caused the Tubbs firing even though Copeland took the fall, just so he could make a splash hire when he got here. We'll see if it works out for him. I hope it does.

I disagree. I think Copeland was pushed into retirement or faced firing, and why would he be inclined to take the fall for his successor? You are also forgetting that Gramps got the ball rolling long before we were in need of a new athletic director.

mrydel will have to answer for himself, but I took his post to mean that Tubbs was the best Big Jim could do, and Orsini was able to get a higher profile coach.

You make it too complicated. Copeland hired Tubbs. Orsini hired Matt. I was merely stating facts. Since both of them were alive and on this earth at the time of both hirings, I would then have to assume that Copeland chose Tubbs and Orsini chose Matt. Nothing meant to be more complex than that. Maybe Copeland asked Matt and he was turned down. Now that would be speculation on my part.

[Big10Ponyfan]

Mrydel has a scoop. Doherty turned down Copeland before saying yes to Orsini.

[DickerJames]

You make it too complicated.

Ha! I have a tendency for that, but I was responding to jtstangs statement that you had brought up a good point concerning Orsini causing Tubbs firing. I guess we were both wrong.

[mrydel]

My wife tells me I am often wrong.

[Big10Ponyfan]

My wife tells me I am often wrong.

Really, if you're married, aren't you wrong all the time, even when you know you're right? It's one of those unwritten rules in marriage. Just shutup, say you're right, dear, and move on.

[mrydel]

My wife tells me I am often wrong.

Really, if you're married, aren't you wrong all the time, even when you know you're right? It's one of those unwritten rules in marriage. Just shutup, say you're right, dear, and move on.

My first wife proved I was always wrong.

[jtstang]

You are correct about when Tubbs was fired, but Gramps got the ball rolling on Burger Gate long before that. Also, Gramps and Orsini would have to have been in collusion for the debacle to have been his desire to make a hiring "splash".

As for Big Jim being forced to retire, that is just my opinion. Why would he leave a cushy job when he is still in his 50's?

I may be a conspiracy theorist, but the timing of all this makes it plausible that the incoming AD wanted to bring in a splashy hoops coach, creating a need for SMU to get rid of their current coach. But you can't fire a coach for his record after only two years. Enter grandpa and burgers and Cheer-gate. Copeland's got health issues and sees the writing on the wall anyway, and as a last gesture to SMU's wishes, fires Tubbs to save the first act of the Orsini era from being a firing.

I know, but it makes a good story.

[EastStang]

The concern that all of us had at the time was that firing Tubbs made no sense whatsoever. We didn't see what was behind the curtain. To most of us, we were concerned that no coach in his right mind would take a job where you got fired for giving a skinny (perhaps stinky) player a burger and a box of cheer and one losing season. I am truly concerned about Doherty's sanity and stability. I repeat no one in his right mind should have taken the SMU job after we fired Tubbs. So mark my words, when MD goes to the rubber room, you'll know why.

[Big10Ponyfan]

You are correct about when Tubbs was fired, but Gramps got the ball rolling on Burger Gate long before that. Also, Gramps and Orsini would have to have been in collusion for the debacle to have been his desire to make a hiring "splash".

As for Big Jim being forced to retire, that is just my opinion. Why would he leave a cushy job when he is still in his 50's?

I may be a conspiracy theorist, but the timing of all this makes it plausible that the incoming AD wanted to bring in a splashy hoops coach, creating a need for SMU to get rid of their current coach. But you can't fire a coach for his record after only two years. Enter grandpa and burgers and Cheer-gate. Copeland's got health issues and sees the writing on the wall anyway, and as a last gesture to SMU's wishes, fires Tubbs to save the first act of the Orsini era from being a firing.

I know, but it makes a good story.

I'm right there with you on that. I've always thought that Copeland did this to look like the bad guy because he knew he had nothing to lose and Orsini comes in like the white knight to save the day.

[DickerJames]

I know, but it makes a good story.

Maybe you've got a future in writing best selling fiction novels. It's worked pretty well for other lawyers.

[DickerJames]

I'm right there with you on that. I've always thought that Copeland did this to look like the bad guy because he knew he had nothing to lose and Orsini comes in like the white knight to save the day.

And what would be his motive for leaving as the bad guy?

[MustangTu]

Copeland is eligible for Soc. Sec. He had Cance. Health and his wife had more to do with his leaving than anything else. Moves such as occured(firing Tubbs and buying out his contract) (hiring Matt D and giving him everything he wanted) involved more than just Turner. To much money was involved and the athletic budget has been to tight over the last 10 yrs to just involve Turner. Copeland had lined up money for the new practice facilite before all of the events took place. Most of you either give Copeland to much credit for the problems aa well as to much credit for the good that has occured to Orsini. Keep in mind it has only been the last 2 years that Mustang Club has been able to raise its goal of $1.5 M or more during it fund drive.

For my money the jury is out on Orsini. I for one want to see some bang not just alot of flash. I was not a big fan of Copelands but I must I agree with Orsini's comment when he said Copeland did a lot of the heavy lifting in positioning the athletic dept to go to the next level.

[Big10Ponyfan]

Copeland is eligible for Soc. Sec. He had Cance. Health and his wife had more to do with his leaving than anything else. Moves such as occured(firing Tubbs and buying out his contract) (hiring Matt D and giving him everything he wanted) involved more than just Turner. To much money was involved and the athletic budget has been to tight over the last 10 yrs to just involve Turner. Copeland had lined up money for the new practice facilite before all of the events took place. Most of you either give Copeland to much credit for the problems aa well as to much credit for the good that has occured to Orsini. Keep in mind it has only been the last 2 years that Mustang Club has been able to raise its goal of $1.5 M or more during it fund drive.

For my money the jury is out on Orsini. I for one want to see some bang not just alot of flash. I was not a big fan of Copelands but I must I agree with Orsini's comment when he said Copeland did a lot of the heavy lifting in positioning the athletic dept to go to the next level.

How do you know Copeland lined up the money for the practice facility? You can't just throw something out there and expect us to accept it as gospel. Back up that remark.

Copeland raised about $83 million when he was here. $54 of that came toward the stadium and about $30 of that came from Ford and the Hunts who wanted a better stadium on campus. Take that off, and Copeland raised about $30 million in those 10 years, $2-3 million a year is awful.

And I know that because a person in the athletic department told me.