We Need to Wait Until Progress is not made

[2112]

1 AND 5 ON THE ROAD THIS YEAR, ONLY BEATING A TEAM THAT DOES NOT HAVE A SUMMER WEIGHT PROGRAM.

[MustangIcon]

1 AND 5 ON THE ROAD THIS YEAR, ONLY BEATING A TEAM THAT DOES NOT HAVE A SUMMER WEIGHT PROGRAM.

Don't bring up things like that. You are slowing down the "progress" thread here. Geez, next you'll bring up how we were 1-3 against the 4 CUSA teams we played that are going bowling this season.

[Big10Ponyfan]

Its time for SMU to expect their damn coach to easily outrecruit the pitiful group of programs in CUSA and to be competitive in recruiting against TCU. I'm getting pretty tired of the damn excuses when NTSU, Rice, Tulsa, UTEP and Houston have all by-passed SMU during Bennett's tenure to go the bowls generally multiple bowls. I've been told a MILLION times SMU is commited to excelling. You've been wrong. I tell you right now-we ain't anywhere close-we've been here before and we are just fumbling along and will for the forseeable future getting a couple of players here and developing a diamond in the rough there. We have 17 years of proof that does not translate to a winning program. Somethings got to give-either fix the often cited problems with the program or keep firing every coach until we find a miracle worker. There needs to be changes whether its the Head Coach, the offensive coordinator or the firing of some of the dead weight on this coaching staff that hasn't recruited a decent prospect in their entire career.

This banter is completely unproductive. This is a tired argument.

[Big10Ponyfan]

In case some of you didn't know we actually used to play real football teams and were competitive;

1996(Rossley)
Tulsa W 17-10
Arkansas W 23-10
Utah L 17-21
Navy L 17-19 (lost on last seconf FG)
No. 24 BYU L 3-31
Missouri L 26-27(missed last second chip shot)
@Rice L 17-35
New Mexico W 52-21
@ No. 17 Wyoming L 17-59 -a 10-1 great ballclub
@UTEP W 30-0
TCU W 27-24

1997(Cavan)

@ Ole Miss L 15-23
Arkansas W 31-9
Navy L 16-41
No. 23 BYU L 16-19 OT-BYU went 14-1 that year
@New Mexico L 15-22
@Utah W 20-19
Wyoming W 22-17
Rice W 24-6
UTEP W 28-14
@Tulsa W 42-41
@TCU L 18-21

Please don't insult our intelligence and claim that SMU under Bennett is competing at a higher level than these years against quality competition. Those teams would have easily won at the very least 7 games and more likely 8 games against the level of competition in 2006 season. SMU is not playing at a higher level in 2006 than they were in 1993 when they went 5-6 in the SWC or 1996 or 1997 under both Rossley and Cavan in the WAC-all we;ve done is traded down on a series of 3 conference realignments to fall to a level at which we can compete against very mediocre football programs. Its time to expect more.

No one outside of the BCS is playing at a higher level of football than they were in 1996 and 1997. The players recruited then are now finding their way into the Kansas, Purdue, Ole Miss, Arizona. etc. The system has been segregated.

So in effect, everybody has traded down. The best non-BCS programs have been Boise St., Fresno St. TCU, Hawaii. BYU lost to Boston College and Arizona (albeit on the road). Those teams have beaten the BCS teams when the situation has presented itself.

But look at TCU, after they beat OU last year, they weren't ready and lost to us. When TCU beat Tech earlier this year, they laid an egg against BYU and then went to Utah and got smoked.

There is a talent difference.

Is our talent competitive at the CUSA level? It's getting there. Will it compete with the Kansas', Ole Miss' consistently -- maybe on a good day. Can it ever get there? That's probably one of the things Steve Orsini is mentally debating with the current staff, especially since he has said that he wants us to be Top 25.

[SMU_is_bowling]

This thread is comparing apples to oranges. The SMU teams in the SWC had more talent, but played against way better comp. Now we are in CUSA and that is what we compete against. Our Team is competative in this confernce, but not yet top tier. We should not judge ourselves off of what we did under Rossley or Cavan or whoever (different times, differnet players) Under Bennett, the last 3 years, the W's have gone up,(no matter who we play, we have to win) they are in more games, not getting blown out by San Jose State at home (see 2001). Do I think we should have gone to a bowl game this year . . . yes. Am I dissapointed, absolutely! Should we fire the whole staff and start from scratch, no. That will take the fight out of this team (they have shown more fight than any team in the last decade).

[mustangxc]

7. Tulane (vagabond program which had no spring practice of off season weight training program)

Dude...I tried to tell you Tulane sucked back in September. You got all pissed at me. Now they are a "vagabond program" with no weight regimen? Glad we agree now.

There is no question we were more competitive under Rossley. Is that even a discussion? The more relevant fact is that we are definitely more competitive now than when Bennett got here. That is what we should be talking about.

Agreed. There is no question that SMU had more talent and better teams under Rossley than the current makeup. However, Cavan/SMU's restrictive policies/the breakup of the SWC drove this program into a tremendous hole. The 1999-2001 schedules were about equal to the current schedule and we finished 4-6, 3-9, 4-7. I am definitely not satisfied with the current state of the program nor with Phil's first 3 seasons, but I still blame the results of the 2002-2004 seasons on Bennett/Cavan/SMU's restrictive policies/the breakup of the SWC.

[joyjoy0414]

Its time for SMU to expect their damn coach to easily outrecruit the pitiful group of programs in CUSA and to be competitive in recruiting against TCU. I'm getting pretty tired of the damn excuses when NTSU, Rice, Tulsa, UTEP and Houston have all by-passed SMU during Bennett's tenure to go the bowls generally multiple bowls. I've been told a MILLION times SMU is commited to excelling. You've been wrong. I tell you right now-we ain't anywhere close-we've been here before and we are just fumbling along and will for the forseeable future getting a couple of players here and developing a diamond in the rough there. We have 17 years of proof that does not translate to a winning program. Somethings got to give-either fix the often cited problems with the program or keep firing every coach until we find a miracle worker. There needs to be changes whether its the Head Coach, the offensive coordinator or the firing of some of the dead weight on this coaching staff that hasn't recruited a decent prospect in their entire career.

how do you know that we dont have a good recruiting class when all but three are redshirted... you have redshirts right now breaking smu powerlifting records and hungry to prove themselves... how could you possible know the impact that they would have. you dont

[Big10Ponyfan]

Its time for SMU to expect their damn coach to easily outrecruit the pitiful group of programs in CUSA and to be competitive in recruiting against TCU. I'm getting pretty tired of the damn excuses when NTSU, Rice, Tulsa, UTEP and Houston have all by-passed SMU during Bennett's tenure to go the bowls generally multiple bowls. I've been told a MILLION times SMU is commited to excelling. You've been wrong. I tell you right now-we ain't anywhere close-we've been here before and we are just fumbling along and will for the forseeable future getting a couple of players here and developing a diamond in the rough there. We have 17 years of proof that does not translate to a winning program. Somethings got to give-either fix the often cited problems with the program or keep firing every coach until we find a miracle worker. There needs to be changes whether its the Head Coach, the offensive coordinator or the firing of some of the dead weight on this coaching staff that hasn't recruited a decent prospect in their entire career.

how do you know that we dont have a good recruiting class when all but three are redshirted... you have redshirts right now breaking smu powerlifting records and hungry to prove themselves... how could you possible know the impact that they would have. you dont

Oh, but he's relied on Rivals and their films and their writeups and their stars to tell him so. But nevermind that he proceeded to rip Rivals two months ago and attack one of their top people stating that they were hacks that kissed up to alums at every school.

Plus, since's bragged about working in an AD's office, he has all of the insight all of country bumpkins don't.

That's where he gets all of those models -- but I don't know if meant making battleships or P-51 Mustangs.

[Charleston Pony]

I agree with the basic premise of this post. Next year's SMU team will be ENTIRELY coach Bennett's. I sincerely hope this bunch is ready to break from mediocrity and win 7 games against what will undoubtedly be tougher competition than we faced this year. Simply replacing SHSU with TCU guarantees the schedule will be more challenging.

Let's hope that lowly rated recruiting class of 2006 will produce several guys who will come in and make significant contributions in 2007. Let's hope the guys who have been in this program 3-4-5 years will step up and end this "bowling drought". After all, there are about a dozen more bowl games looking for teams to fill their match-ups since we last participated.

I have no problem with the decision to retain Bennett but agree we need to continue making progress. Next year will be very telling in terms of whether this program is truly making progress. The past 2 years, we've been able to RS most of the new guys. Bennett finally has this program to a point where most of the guys on the field will have been in the program 3 years or more. We will soon find out whether Bennett is the guy who will re-build a program that will be capable of competing for CUSA championships or whether he has just built a consistently mediocre (but at least competitive) program.

Next year is critical because with only 3 years left on his contract, that will be used against SMU in recruiting. I'd love to see 8 wins next year and a contract extension, but my fear is a 5-7 season and Orsini is out looking for a new coach this time next year.

[planoponyfan]

In case some of you didn't know we actually used to play real football teams and were competitive;

1996(Rossley)

1997(Cavan)

(edited for length)

Your post has many good points. We used to play better teams. We used to play in a strong WAC conference before it broke up. We're now playing in the CUSA, which is better than the current WAC, but not as good as the old SWC.

But, your post also reinforces my belief that keeping Bennett is the best thing for the program.

As you pointed out, Rossley hit his high-water mark in that 1996 season with 5 wins. That wasn't enough and he was fired. I was a little surprised, but happy to see Mike Cavan come along. He got us over the hump with a 6 win season in 1997. Unfortunately, that was his high-water mark. One wonders how many wins Rossley would have had with that 1997 team? Had we gone to a bowl that year, where would this program be today? We can't answer those questions, but we do know that until this year this team had not returned to the 6 win mark.

It seems to me that doing what we did after the 1996 season has already proven to not produce long-term positive results. Fortunately we've done the right thing and retained our coach. I think recruiting should be better this year with players able to see that we can be competitive and bowl worthy. Had we changed coaches, no one would know what to expect.

I'm excited about seeing this team play next season.

[Original Frank]

Its time for SMU to expect their damn coach to easily outrecruit the pitiful group of programs in CUSA and to be competitive in recruiting against TCU. I'm getting pretty tired of the damn excuses when NTSU, Rice, Tulsa, UTEP and Houston have all by-passed SMU during Bennett's tenure to go the bowls generally multiple bowls. I've been told a MILLION times SMU is commited to excelling. You've been wrong. I tell you right now-we ain't anywhere close-we've been here before and we are just fumbling along and will for the forseeable future getting a couple of players here and developing a diamond in the rough there. We have 17 years of proof that does not translate to a winning program. Somethings got to give-either fix the often cited problems with the program or keep firing every coach until we find a miracle worker. There needs to be changes whether its the Head Coach, the offensive coordinator or the firing of some of the dead weight on this coaching staff that hasn't recruited a decent prospect in their entire career.

He's abrasive, but he is right as rain with that post. We will only improve our lot when we recruit players that are as good as, or better, than the teams we compete with. After the spike typical for any new coach, Phil has not upgraded his talent. So far this year, our recruiting is not such that will result in a truly successful program. If PB wants to stay around and truly be successful here, he needs to salvage a good recruiting class this year. Otherwise the vicious cycle of poor recruiting=poor success on the field=poor recruiting=poor success will get him. If we find ourselves in the deminishing return cycle, Orsini has no choice but to try someone else.