PonyFans.comBoard IndexAround the HilltopFootballRecruitingBasketballOther Sports

Stallion's Crusade

This is the forum for talk about SMU Football

Moderators: PonyPride, SmooPower

Postby jtstang » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:31 am

ponyboy wrote:I could have hoped for no more stunning confirmation of my thesis than the reaction by you and Jtstang. Wow.

Please explain how my reasoned reaction supports your thesis, but first, tell me what your thesis is.
User avatar
jtstang
PonyFans.com Super Legend
 
Posts: 11161
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:21 am
Location: Dallas, TX

Postby Stallion » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:58 am

Ponyboy instead of coming on here and repeatedly making a fool of yourself why don't you stick with making pom-poms and banners for that great basketball team of ours. You know the one with the JUCO Ike(the "Star"), the star Prep School Bamba (the "Franchise") and the star Prep School recruit Papa Dia (the "Future"). And when you are done making those banners and posters with your suck-up buddies about the Star, The Franchise and the Future you can tell everybody how wrong I have been the last 10 years.
Stallion
PonyFans.com Super Legend
 
Posts: 44302
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2000 4:01 am
Location: Dallas,Texas,USA

Postby Mexmustang » Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:04 pm

Look, Stallion is dead on. We have been our worst enemy. The pendelum swung to the faculty and their committees, and away from both the board and the alumns under Pye.

No one had the power to take on the faculty and their threats. No one held the faculty, especially those in Dedman, to bring their standards up either. I beleive the indirect benefit to the school, was the emergence of the business school, where alumns were welcomed. The school also wasn't seen as having a "dog in the fight" between althlectics, administration and faculty.

Even today, alumns don't makeup the majority of the SMU board. I believe Turner has done great in many respects, but that the heat should remain on him until we complete the dismantling of the Pye/faculty model. It has always been my opinion, that the SMU president, not just Turner was threatened by the faculty to censure him if athletics were not significantly downsized and put under control--noneone ever had the b--.s to call their bluff and set higher standards for their own quality. Having two students at SMU currently, their are a number of Dedman departments that they would give failing grades to and they both felt fortunate to have Cox as an excellant alternative. both are good students, in the upper 10% of their respective classes and rated two departments below those of HPHS in quality of instruction.
Mexmustang
Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 2993
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 4:01 am
Location: Highland Park, Texas

Postby ponyboy » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:02 pm

jtstang wrote: Please explain how my reasoned reaction supports your thesis, but first, tell me what your thesis is.


To be fair, your reaction was more reasoned than your friend's since you refrained from calling me "[deleted]" and used the slightly less offensive term "sunshiner."

I am arguing that Stallion is right but that his repetition of that message on this board is counterproductive. He's barking up the wrong tree. And that we need more rather than less cheerleaders -- that that's precisely the function of a fan, to cheer. And I can only conclude that my argument has at least some merit because of the defensive use of epithets.
ponyboy
PonyFans.com Super Legend
 
Posts: 15134
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 4:01 am
Location: University Park,TX US

Postby EastStang » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:51 pm

Look Stallion is right about model issues and is dead on about recruiting. Those of us from the 70's era who got to go to games every year against UT, Ark., TT, A&M, Baylor, TCU, Rice, UH remember what we had and what we lost. Are we bitter about it? Absolutely. And what makes us especially frustrated is that we rail about then NCAA and the death penalty, but don't say one whit about what we did to ourselves afterward. Would the SWC have broken up in 1996? Probably. But we were pretending to be a SWC team with Division II recruiting rules. Of course we lost. Today, we are in a conference with three other private schools and one school in El Paso where any moron can get accepted, one school in Houston with only slightly better admission requirements, a school in Mississippi that merely requires a high school diploma (in a state that has the worst public school system in the Country), a school in Carolina that is the school that does extension classes at Camp LeJune, and the second best University in West Virginia, nuff said. Stallion has been right that changing coaches doesn't change anything. We have some great guys on the football team and some diamonds in the rough. We will cheer for them every Saturday, cuss the refs when the do us wrong, but we know the story. We have a long way to go to be as competitive as I want us to be. When we go 12-0 beating at least one BCS team (other than Duke or Baylor), then I'll believe we've really turned the corner.
EastStang
PonyFans.com Super Legend
 
Posts: 12685
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2002 4:01 am

Postby BrianTinBigD » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:53 pm

I for one enjoy watching Stallion point out the obvious. I suffer from Sunshinitis during the season but it takes about 10 minutes after the final gun and I am back to being a realistic fan looking for ways to make SMU better. So far, the Mustang Club has not stepped up to the plate and made the impact that I would like but maybe Greg Gardner is going to change that. Not sure if keeping PB was the right decision but at least Orsini did not sign him to another contract extension. I am sure that Orsini will not tolerate another 6-6 season and the schedule gets a whole lot tougher next year.

I know I hate reading the patently lame comments about how we will be better next year just because I pray to Jesus every night that we will be or the ridiculous number of posts that quote what someone else says, adds 4 letters, and throws a smiley out there. I find my self leaning heavily towards the jtstang and Stallion view of things. Maybe we are just bored since there is really nothing to argue about but at least we have recruiting and basketball to keep us busy until spring football.
Class of '91
User avatar
BrianTinBigD
Heisman
 
Posts: 1421
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:39 am
Location: Allen, Texas

Postby jtstang » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:10 pm

ponyboy wrote:To be fair, your reaction was more reasoned than your friend's since you refrained from calling me "[deleted]" and used the slightly less offensive term "sunshiner."

I don't consider sunshiner to be offensive and would have assumed you did not either since your original post asked what was wrong with being one. But whatever. Your "thesis" says that constant repitition ofwhat you consider to be a negative message is counter-productive. Well, the same could be said of the constant showers of sunshine that come from the other side. If everybody believes everything is hunky-dory, then nothing will change because of that perception.

But that's not really true either, is it? The truth of the matter is, and you and me and Stallion and everybody else knows it, is that what is posted on this message board is neither productive nor counter-productive, but, quite simply, unproductive. It does not help or hurt, either way. And that's as it should be. We do not run things in the athletic department and heaven forbid if we did. Message boards are for fans to post their opinions of their team, good and bad. What you are doing is trying to be Stallion in reverse. You say, "Stallion don't criticize me because you don't like my cheerleading" at the same time you dedicate an entire thread to criticizing Stallion because you don't like his negativity.

The fact of the matter is SMU is going to do what SMU is going to do, whether you are leading cheers or Stallion's leading boos. More cheerleaders on this board are not going to change anything any more than more Stallion rants will. Just accept this board for what it is and let everybody have their say. And have you learned the words to the alma mater yet? I want to see you singing it properly at the next game.
User avatar
jtstang
PonyFans.com Super Legend
 
Posts: 11161
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:21 am
Location: Dallas, TX

Postby ponyboy » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:50 pm

I can't help it if you didn't learn the optional second verse.
ponyboy
PonyFans.com Super Legend
 
Posts: 15134
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 4:01 am
Location: University Park,TX US

[deleted]

Postby bigdaddy08091 » Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:45 pm

ponyboy wrote:
Stallion wrote:Again-what makes you so sure that what I have proposed since Day 1 is not what Phil Bennett, Mike Cavan, Mike Dement, Tom Rossley, Forrest Gregg and John Shumate have pressed for since the Day they got their Jobs?

1. Streamlined admission procedure to identify and obtain early commits. CHECK
2. Lowering of the old 1,000 and 950 SAT requirement for Category 1 admissible athletes. CHECK
3. Admission of Prep School athletes. CHECK
4. Admission of JUCO athletes. CHECK
5. Admission of late Qualifiers. CHECK
6. Creation of athlete friendly majors and curriculm. ?
7. Relaxation of transferrability of earned college credits -see 3, 4 and 5. ? but I've admitted it is somewhat unclear starting with this recruiting class-we shall see.
8. Relaxation of some of the apparent rules concerning retaking of courses or SAT/ACT test which are more stringent than NCAA Rules. ?
While most on this board were [deleted], moaning and complaining about Coaches that couldn't motivate the Boys I told you exactly what needed to be done over 10 years ago for SMU to have a strong program-and SMU won't have a consisttently strong program until all are dealt with effectively. Now if I mistating what everybody in the Country calls a Commitment to Division 1A Football and Basketball-go ask Phil Bennett and Matt Doherty exactly where my criticism of SMU has been unfair. They can't because each has relied on exactly these types of recruits at prior coaching stops.


You're not listening. We all know you're right about everything above. You're right. You're right. You're right.

That's not what I've asked. I'm asking why you're constantly beating FANS over the head for daring to show enthusiasm for their team.

So please answer the question: What's wrong with "cheerleading?"


You can train a monkey to receit what Stallion just wrote and you quoted. This is a mere demonstration on how far behind we actually are. Why are we discussing and Stallion is posting about test scores and transfers and late qualifiers, and who the hell wants a prep player. Lebron plays basketball. We don't need any Bishop Lynch HS players. This is how far behind we are, because in acutallity Stallion and people like him want nothing postitive for the program, this includes the admin. They say, we have been there done that, and that is enough. What the hell is a sunshiner. Some kind of sun shined on all the programs like Boise, Wake, name some more please. Stallion is being negative for a reason. I wonder who he really is? I keep telling you people the admin has a choke hold on this program and maybe Stallion is a part of it. The only thing stronger than the admin is wins. PB has to win at any cost?
bigdaddy08091
Heisman
 
Posts: 1479
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:46 pm

Postby Stallion » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:12 pm

Someone doesn't know what they are talking about but it ain't me. A Prep school player is not the same as a private high school. Geez. A prep school is a school that competes in post graduate competition. It is usually a more rigorous JUCO attached to a private school except generally the recruit only loses a single year of eligibility. It is an essential part of college basketball recruiting-it is significantly less important in college football although it has had growing importance in college football too in the last 5 years or so because school don't want to lose two years of eligibility for a top recruit. Prep schools are almost entirely east of the Mississippi River. SMU's future right now in Basketball lies in the hands of two Prep School graduates Bamba Fall and Papa Dia. In addition, there is a good chance that next year's PG will be a Prep School graduate-Mike Walker. You better run that Prep school hating attitude by Coach Doherty before you say some stupid.
As for some of the other types of players let's put this in terms even you may be able to understand:
Columbus Givens-one of the first and few late qualifiers to be admitted to SMU
Haywood and Bobby Chase-two of the first JUCO players admitted to the Football program in years
K. J. Ellis-I believe you have said he's going to be a good one. Ellis is a Division 1A Transfer
Brandon Jones-you've mentioned Jones-he did not qualify out ogf high school and transferred in after one year of going to a JUCO in Kansas
You keep saying that we need players who are students not students who happen to play-who do you think we are talking about?
Stallion
PonyFans.com Super Legend
 
Posts: 44302
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2000 4:01 am
Location: Dallas,Texas,USA

Wow!

Postby bigdaddy08091 » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:37 pm

Stallion wrote:Someone doesn't know what they are talking about but it ain't me. A Prep school player is not the same as a private high school. Geez. A prep school is a school that competes in post graduate competition. It is usually a more rigorous JUCO attached to a private school except generally the recruit only loses a single year of eligibility. It is an essential part of college basketball recruiting-it is significantly less important in college football although it has had growing importance in college football too in the last 5 years or so because school don't want to lose two years of eligibility for a top recruit. Prep schools are almost entirely east of the Mississippi River. SMU's future right now in Basketball lies in the hands of two Prep School graduates Bamba Fall and Papa Dia. In addition, there is a good chance that next year's PG will be a Prep School graduate-Mike Walker. You better run that Prep school hating attitude by Coach Doherty before you say some stupid.


He went to a private school! Damn, I am smart also. Big words, means the same thing. Post graduate competition to me is college. Those that have to do anytning else, we do not need, unless there is nobody else. You must have went to a prep school? People, Stallion is jerking you off!!!!
I am tired of the bull. Everything he posted, everyone has been doing for years and years, and he makes it sound like rocket sience. Are we that far behind, if so, we are doing damn good at 6-6. Get my point, for the hundreth time? How many college basketball players from the top programs come from PREP schools?
bigdaddy08091
Heisman
 
Posts: 1479
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:46 pm

Postby Stallion » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:44 pm

SMU hasn't been doing it for YEARS-that's the DAMN point-I amended my response above to put in concrete terms why these changes are absolutely necessary. They are some of your favorite players.
Stallion
PonyFans.com Super Legend
 
Posts: 44302
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2000 4:01 am
Location: Dallas,Texas,USA

Postby bigdaddy08091 » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:41 am

Stallion wrote:SMU hasn't been doing it for YEARS-that's the DAMN point-I amended my response above to put in concrete terms why these changes are absolutely necessary. They are some of your favorite players.


I cannot believe this instiution is that far behind the norm in respect to recruiting, test scores and so on. Proves my point again, the admin has to move out of the way, or we need different admins. Or, just let Orsini and his athletic staff govern sports, and let's move forward.
bigdaddy08091
Heisman
 
Posts: 1479
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:46 pm

Postby BrianTinBigD » Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:21 pm

bigdaddy08091 wrote:I cannot believe this instiution is that far behind the norm in respect to recruiting, test scores and so on. Proves my point again, the admin has to move out of the way, or we need different admins. Or, just let Orsini and his athletic staff govern sports, and let's move forward.


This may very well have been the most cogent post I have ever seen from bigdaddy. Short, concise, and he agrees with Stallion. Looks like another convert to the Stallion model.
Class of '91
User avatar
BrianTinBigD
Heisman
 
Posts: 1421
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:39 am
Location: Allen, Texas

Postby bigdaddy08091 » Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:38 pm

BrianTinBigD wrote:
bigdaddy08091 wrote:I cannot believe this instiution is that far behind the norm in respect to recruiting, test scores and so on. Proves my point again, the admin has to move out of the way, or we need different admins. Or, just let Orsini and his athletic staff govern sports, and let's move forward.


This may very well have been the most cogent post I have ever seen from bigdaddy. Short, concise, and he agrees with Stallion. Looks like another convert to the Stallion model.


I am quite sure players post on this site. I hope to God we are not scaring anyone off, or scaring off recruits. I am still overwhelmed, if it is fact, that SMU is that far behind in all the areas surrounding building a program. What happened? and do not tell me the DP. Even Stallion and the rest of us know these things. I am not converted, but truth is truth, but when I hear BS, it is BS.
bigdaddy08091
Heisman
 
Posts: 1479
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:46 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Football

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 6 guests