Is $2 Million worth a new coach???

[RGV Pony]

To add some irony to the Mack Brown debate, I think the winningest coach in the last 5 years is actually Larry Coker, and if not, he does compare favorably to Mack Brown. Who does Coker coach again?

[EastStang]

If he's such a crappy coach, its amazing any players would want to go to UT. When you have great players, you have the chance to have a great team. When you have leftovers, you may be the reincarnation of Knute Rockne or Vince Lombardi, but that won't get you very far year in and year out. Stallion is saying only that Mac Brown is a great coach because wherever he has coached, he has landed superior talent. He did that at UNC and he did that at UT. He may not be able to x and o his way out of a paper bag, but that really doesn't matter because he has the best stable of athletes which make up for a ton of sins and he is worth the money paid to him because he gives you that advantage.

[mrydel]

Yeah, but we did not want him anyway, and that goes for any of his players at UNC or UT.

[expony18]

To add some irony to the Mack Brown debate, I think the winningest coach in the last 5 years is actually Larry Coker, and if not, he does compare favorably to Mack Brown. Who does Coker coach again?

2001-present
Larry Coker 59-15
Pete Carroll 63-11
Mack Brown 63-11
Todd Dodge 77-1

[Mountain Mustang]

The bottom line here is that with the talent that Mack Brown has assembled he should have won more.

You can talk about winning percentages all you want Stallion, but a program at the level that UT is at measures success in three ways: National Championships, Conference Championships and beating OU. Mack Brown is 3-5 against OU, won only one conference title since he's been at UT. He won the national championship last year and that makes him one for three.

It's just like the Yankees, if you get the best players, then it's your job to make them winners. If you don't win at the highest level the blame falls on you.

For all of his wonderful recruiting classes, Brown should have accomplished more than he has.

[expony18]

im a red sox fan

[J.T.supporta]

[quote="RGV Pony"]To add some irony to the Mack Brown debate, I think the winningest coach in the last 5 years is actually Larry Coker, and if not, he does compare favorably to Mack Brown. Who does Coker coach again?[/quote]

MACK BROWN IS THE WINNINGEST in the last 6 years (2001-2006). Yes Coker got off to a hot start by only losing 1 in his first 2 years but he didnt not fair well as we all know with his recent canning.

Brown, even with a off season this year, has still won more games than Coker, Tress, and Carol in the past 6 years.

Losses from 01-06: MB 11, PC 12, JT 13, LC 15

Those are cold hard facts. I dont understand why a lot of you bash Brown and not call him a good coach. Sure he might have had problems "winning the big game" but he has, he led his team to the BIGGEST GAME and his record in the past 6 years proves he is a top coach. UT has finished in the top 10 the last 5 years. This will be the first year they dont.

Coker does not compare favorable to Brown. Yes the guy went to 2 NC games and won 1 but he went down hill from there. Brown is atleast somewhat consistent. He built up a weak NCarolina team and fled for UT to give them a title.

[J.T.supporta]

[quote="expony18"]
2001-present
Larry Coker 59-15
Pete Carroll 63-11
Mack Brown 63-11
Todd Dodge 77-1[/quote]

Coach Fredo has actually lost 12...6 his first year, 2 in his 2nd, 1 in his 3rd, 1 in his 5th, and 2 this year

[J.T.supporta]

[quote="Mountain Mustang"]The bottom line here is that with the talent that Mack Brown has assembled he should have won more.

won only one conference title since he's been at UT. He won the national championship last year and that makes him one for three.
[/quote]

how can you say he should have won more??? Do u know that UT has finished in the Top 10 the last five years. Something that OU hasnt done. To lose an average of less than 2 games is year is pretty good to me with 1 NC title under his belt. I also think hes won 2 BIG XII titles. 2004 and 2005....back to back Rose Bowl championships is pretty damn good too.

[Mountain Mustang]

QUOTE: Do u know that UT has finished in the Top 10 the last five years. Something that OU hasnt done.

OU outranked UT in the AP Top 25 in '06, '04, '03, '02, '01, and '00. That's 6 out of the last 7 years.

I also think hes won 2 BIG XII titles. 2004 and 2005....back to back Rose Bowl championships is pretty damn good too.[/quote]

He didn't win the Big 12 Title in 2004, OU did. Do your research. That's ONE Conference Championship. If you will remember, he had to lobby strongly just to get in to a BCS game over Cal that year.


I have not said that Brown isn't good, he runs one of the best programs in the country because he's a great recruiter. He's not a great coach. If he was he would have won more than 1 conference title in his tenure with all the talent he's had. This is how I can say he should have won more.



[/b]

[J.T.supporta]

[quote="Mountain Mustang"]QUOTE: Do u know that UT has finished in the Top 10 the last five years. Something that OU hasnt done.

[b]OU outranked UT in the AP Top 25 in '06, '04, '03, '02, '01, and '00. That's 6 out of the last 7 years.[/b]

I also think hes won 2 BIG XII titles. 2004 and 2005....back to back Rose Bowl championships is pretty damn good too.[/quote]

[b]He didn't win the Big 12 Title in 2004, OU did. Do your research. That's ONE Conference Championship. If you will remember, he had to lobby strongly just to get in to a BCS game over Cal that year.
[/b]

[b]I have not said that Brown isn't good, he runs one of the best programs in the country because he's a great recruiter. He's not a great coach. If he was he would have won more than 1 conference title in his tenure with all the talent he's had. This is how I can say he should have won more. [/b]



[/b][/quote]

First off, i said "I THINK" not I know...I totally had a brain fart at the time and forgot that they didnt win the BIG XII that year because OU got their asses handed to them by USC in the Orange Bowl.

Second, I DID DO MY RESEARCH, thats how I know that MB is the winningest coach in the past 6 years. And CAL has been overrated for a while. MB didnt need to lobby strongly over CAL...UT finished 4 in the BCS while CAL was 5th. Do u remember the last time CAL thought they should have been playing in the BCS??? They were beatin by TT in the Holiday bowl.

Third, all i said was UT has finished in the top for the past 5 years, never did i say they ranked better than UT...but thanks for that tad bit.

And Last, you just contradicted yourself by saying "I have not said that Brown isn't good" then you said "He's not a great coach."...maybe those could be meant in different ways but seems to me a big confusing.

[Mountain Mustang]

JT look, if you can't distinguish between "good" and "great" that's your problem, not mine. Sorry if my terms were too complex and confused you. Let me make it simple:

MB bowl record at UT: 5-3 (Good, not great)
MB Conf. Titles at UT: 1, (Winning your conference once in 8 seasonsis good not great)

Regarding your so-called brain fart of incorrectly thinking that UT won the Big 12 in '04, UT didn't lose the Big 12 because OU got their [deleted] handed to them by USC as you stated, they lost the Big 12 because out shut them out. That's the fact.

I've said before that IMO a school like UT measures success in terms of playing for national titles, winning conference titles and winning rivalry games. It's just like in golf; the top players are measured by their major titles i.e. Nicklaus and Woods. To his credit Mack Brown has taken the UT program to that level, but he hasn't been as successful on that level as he should have with all of the recruits he's brought in. Again, my opinion.

Yea, you're right MB is the "winningest" coach in the last six years if you define the term "winningest" by win percentage; he beat Carroll by 1 percentage point and Stoops by 2. If you define it by number of wins, then it's Stoops (66-13 vs. 65-11 for MB). I guess you didn't want to look at the last 7 years, b/c if you did then you would see that Stoops was the "winningest" by both percentage and total wins. Six years seemed kind of arbitrary to me, but whatever floats your boat.

My contention is and has been that Brown is a good coach and great recruiter. If he was as good at coaching as he is at recruiting, then he would've won more conference titles and played in more conference championship games and had a better record against OU. We'll have to agree to disagree.

[mr. pony]

It's not tough to recruit at UT.

[J.T.supporta]

[quote="Mountain Mustang"]Regarding your so-called brain fart of incorrectly thinking that UT won the Big 12 in '04, UT didn't lose the Big 12 because OU got their [deleted] handed to them by USC as you stated, they lost the Big 12 because out shut them out. That's the fact.

I guess you didn't want to look at the last 7 years, b/c if you did then you would see that Stoops was the "winningest" by both percentage and total wins. Six years seemed kind of arbitrary to me, but whatever floats your boat.[/quote]

I know OU shut them out of the BIG XII title game, I was just saying that OU had won the 12 and played for the title...I know they (UT) didnt play for the BIG 12 title, OU did and won it.

As for looking back at the 7 years...6 years...whatever thing, As I mentioned early in this thread, ABC/ESPN pointed out in a graphic earlier this CFB year that MB was the winningest coach in the past 5 years...and it just so happenend to be that he still has won more games in 6 years too.

I do agree with you that 1 conference title is not great for a coach like MB but once you win a NC, that shuts all the critics up. You can point to other Coaches like Coker who one a NC but faltered years later...MB won a title, something that most people didnt think he could do....i do agree with you on "agreeing to disagree." I'd just like to end this by saying that ive meet MB and had Breakfast with the guy before, and he is one of the most stand up, classiest guys I've meet.

[Mountain Mustang]

I definitely agree that winning a national championship gives you and the program instant credibility, which was something that MB was lacking prior to last year.

I'm sure that Brown is a great guy, and I never have said otherwise. That doesn't really have any bearing on what we were talking about, but it's cool you got a chance to meet him. I think he does very well for his program, you don't win a national championship without doing something (or a lot of things) right. My only thought throughout this whole thing is that I wonder how dominant UT could've been throughout his reign if MB was as good of a coach as he was a recruiter.