Attendance - depressing

[mustangxc]

I went to the SMU-Rice basketball game on Saturday and came away encouraged by the effort, but quite worried by the attendance. There were only 3/4 groups of SMU backers for a grand total of about 8-10 aside from the players relatives sitting directly behind the team. Additionally, most of the fans at the game were probably 60 and older. When our respective schools lose these fans, who is going to care about our athletic programs? I hope we really do get it right with Orsini, Bennett, Doherty, and Rompola. Otherwise I fear that with the passing of great SMU backers such as Mr. Hunt, who accounted for 10,000 fans with his generous support, we do not have the numbers to support the athletic program. What a shame really. I am a young alum myself, but rarely if ever see any other fans my age at the games.

[Stallion]

The policy of this school has been to tie itself to Rice, Tulsa and Tulane as closely as possible-probably because those are just about the only schools they might have a shot at winning. So many of you seemed 100% convinced the CUSA would work because of the regional ties. 12,000 bothered to come to a Bowl qualification game between 2 schools who hadn't been to a bowl in a combined 64 years. The policy of TCU has been to swim as fast as possible away from the downdraft of those schools because their history shows very little commitment to excel at Division 1A. The jury is still out which may not be good news for the home team. CUSA has not seen the expected increase in attendance. I'm shocked anybody thought CUSA would help attendance.

[bagice]

Obviously,

the attendance is not something anyone can be happy with but C-USA will help in the long run, at least more than the WAC. Not a stellar jump but it will be better than if we stayed in the WAC.

As far as the Football game down in Rice, the poor attendance falls squarely on the shoulders of Rice. SMU did its part, as I am sure anyone that was there can attest to, at least 5,000 SMU fans made the trip and we dominated one side of the stadium. I think that shows if SMU can start winning and generate some excitement the fans will come back.

Bottom line, only die hard fans want to watch two schools with sub par records play, be it football or basketball. We just need to get better and hope our conference mates do the same.

[tristatecoog]

How many do you think will be at Saturday night's game vs. Memphis? My guess is around 4,000. Are any promotions being done for that game? TCU had just over 4K for its game against #14 ranked Air Force, and quite possibly that crowd (if representative of actual attendance) helped them pull a huge upset. If TCU can do it, so can SMU although Memphis is better (#8 RPI vs #18 AFA). After TCU lost 11 in a row, is the win over AFA enough to save Dougherty's job?

[mustangxc]

Obviously,

the attendance is not something anyone can be happy with but C-USA will help in the long run, at least more than the WAC. Not a stellar jump but it will be better than if we stayed in the WAC.

As far as the Football game down in Rice, the poor attendance falls squarely on the shoulders of Rice. SMU did its part, as I am sure anyone that was there can attest to, at least 5,000 SMU fans made the trip and we dominated one side of the stadium. I think that shows if SMU can start winning and generate some excitement the fans will come back.

Bottom line, only die hard fans want to watch two schools with sub par records play, be it football or basketball. We just need to get better and hope our conference mates do the same.

I was referring to the basketball game this past saturday. The football game in November was "well attended" by the SMU faithful.

[Charleston Pony]

let's see if the hope of improvement finally brings some long lost fans back to Ford next year. I agree that football is making baby strides.

As for Bball, have we bottomed out...yet? Just when I think we can't go lower, we do. I just have to remember back to Dave Bliss' 1st two seasons that were something like 6-22 and 7-21. Gotta give Doherty a couple of years before we can realistically hope to see any improvement, but this program is dangerously close to extinction.

I hate it for the guys who came here hoping to be a part of turning this thing around. I'm disappointed for Pearson, Rack and Ike that they aren't going to taste any success and saw very little fan appreciation during their time here. Can only hope it's better for some future generation of SMU hoopsters

[Mustang98]

Basketball is just not a Texas thing. From High School all the way to the NBA. The Mavs, Spurs, and Rockets are all having success this year, but the sports talk (at least here in Houston) is mainly football (nfl draft), the upcoming MLB season, and then people start talking about basketball. University of Texas has always had a competitive program, but when people think about Texas college basketball the only thing that comes to mind historically is Phi Slamma Jamma at UofH with Drexler and Olajuwon and further back with Jim Krebs at SMU.

I know a lot of us wanted SMU to take the Duke formula and put a winning team out there with 5 starters with a good SAT score, but it's different in Texas. Duke can build a basketball program in North Carolina because that region is a basketball hotbed.

If we can have some success in football, then our basketball program can piggyback off that. Let's face it, football is king in Texas.

[ReedFrawg]

How many do you think will be at Saturday night's game vs. Memphis? My guess is around 4,000. Are any promotions being done for that game? TCU had just over 4K for its game against #14 ranked Air Force, and quite possibly that crowd (if representative of actual attendance) helped them pull a huge upset. If TCU can do it, so can SMU although Memphis is better (#8 RPI vs #18 AFA). After TCU lost 11 in a row, is the win over AFA enough to save Dougherty's job?

I've been to several games this year but I missed the AFA game. I'd be shocked if we had over 3,000 people there. Don't forget that AFA has lost several MWC games in the last two weeks. I would be shocked if 1 win over a quality opponent could cause the administration to overlook 2 awful seasons in a row. TCU bball is dead right now.

[Water Pony]

I think the attendance solution, starts with the students, whether is it BB or FB. Having watch attendance from 2001 to 2005, when my son was in school, the student body, fraternities, GDI's, etc. were more interested in parties or other state schools. At Notre Dame, Duke BB and, even Vanderbilt BB, attendance by the students is exciting and add to the game excitement.

As a private school, we may not have the numbers, but current students and recent alums need to make a commitment like the other fans. 2/3's full is enough to create noise and buzz, while 1/3 leaves a much different impression.

[Mustang98]

went to the SMU-Rice basketball game on Saturday and came away encouraged by the effort, but quite worried by the attendance. There were only 3/4 groups of SMU backers for a grand total of about 8-10 aside from the players relatives sitting directly behind the team. Additionally, most of the fans at the game were probably 60 and older.

I attended the SMU vs. Houston game in January at Hofienz and the same sized SMU turnout was there just as you described at Autry Court. What's even more depressing is that the Cougar fans and Rice fans have just as meager a turnout as we do when it comes to home attendance. Winning will crank up the numbers. If anyone can make us winners, it's going to be Matt Doughtery. Go Ponies!

[Blunt Pony]

Basketball is just not a Texas thing. From High School all the way to the NBA. The Mavs, Spurs, and Rockets are all having success this year, but the sports talk (at least here in Houston) is mainly football (nfl draft), the upcoming MLB season, and then people start talking about basketball. University of Texas has always had a competitive program, but when people think about Texas college basketball the only thing that comes to mind historically is Phi Slamma Jamma at UofH with Drexler and Olajuwon and further back with Jim Krebs at SMU.

I know a lot of us wanted SMU to take the Duke formula and put a winning team out there with 5 starters with a good SAT score, but it's different in Texas. Duke can build a basketball program in North Carolina because that region is a basketball hotbed.

If we can have some success in football, then our basketball program can piggyback off that. Let's face it, football is king in Texas.

I think you are way off base here. Basketball is in fact where we need to be focusing. While I agree that football is king in Texas, the BCS has ensured that we will never be competing on the national stage in football. I know the exceptions of Boise, etc. but they are indeed exceptions to the rule. In basketball we have the ability each and every year to compete for the national championship. While this may be a pipe dream, it is in the realm of possibility unlike football. College basketball is littered with teams that compete on the national stage in basketball but have no success in football. I know that you are making a regional argument here, but I do not see why a small private school (even in Texas) would not follow the path of many other small privates who "choose" to excel in basketball. I say choose because it is a choice to compete. We are committing some resources to the basketball program and I will go on record as saying this is money well spent. Our rise (if there is to be one) on the national scene will be in basketball, not football. I will be happy to eat those words one day but I doubt I will need to.

[Mustang98]

Blunt Pony,

Let me try to understand your point of view. Do we have a better chance of getting a blue chip basketball recruit from Texas than a football blue chip recruit from Texas? Do we have a better chance of getting a blue chip basketball recruit from out of state versus the state of Texas? Is the level of competition and national exposure of CUSA basketball easier to sell than CUSA fooball?

If yes to all three questions, then I think you may have a point.

I would love to be contenders every year in basketball, but I wonder if we would be like Memphis (a lone dominant team). We would be a powerhouse in our own league and then the great matchups would mostly be in non-conference games and March Madness. How long could we sell SMU and CUSA to players with the equivalent caliber of Bobby Hurley, Christian Laettner, Grant Hill, Shane Battier to come play at the Hilltop in CUSA? I am not knocking your argument, but I am curious if you think we can get those type of players to SMU?

[Blunt Pony]

Blunt Pony,

Let me try to understand your point of view. Do we have a better chance of getting a blue chip basketball recruit from Texas than a football blue chip recruit from Texas? Do we have a better chance of getting a blue chip basketball recruit from out of state versus the state of Texas? Is the level of competition and national exposure of CUSA basketball easier to sell than CUSA fooball?

If yes to all three questions, then I think you may have a point.

I would love to be contenders every year in basketball, but I wonder if we would be like Memphis (a lone dominant team). We would be a powerhouse in our own league and then the great matchups would mostly be in non-conference games and March Madness. How long could we sell SMU and CUSA to players with the equivalent caliber of Bobby Hurley, Christian Laettner, Grant Hill, Shane Battier to come play at the Hilltop in CUSA? I am not knocking your argument, but I am curious if you think we can get those type of players to SMU?

I do not follow the recruiting services much but I can tell you at least in Dallas that the level of high school competion has increased tremendously. We are arguably one of the top areas for D1 talent in basketball at the presnt time. Again, I am sure that we produce more D1 football players, but basketball has really come on in recent years. Someone like LA Mustang or Stallion can present a better case than I. Point taken on the one team wonders. Memphis is not getting much respect now from torching CUSA. However, hoops has the great equalizer of the NCAA tournament. This is where schools like Gonzaga have made a name for themselves. I am presenting my own exception to the rule here, but they are a good example of a small school in a weak conference that has had sustained success. This success has not been due to conference affiliation, but to tournament success.

As to your questions, I do feel we have a better shot at a local blue chip basketball player than football player. The team around you in football has a much larger impact on your success than with hoops. Example, a blue chip quarterback (not named Vince Young) would spend a lot of time on his back in the backfield because he does not have UT's O-line standing in front of him to look good. In hoops the same blue chipper may face double teams and collapsing defenses, but would have a greater impact on the game and his personal stats would not suffer as much.

As for level of competion based on conference, this goes up and down based on other schools situations. I do feel however that the hoops advantage lies in the postseason which in CUSA means the Liberty Bowl for your football champion versus an NCAA tourney bid that is hyped for a week prior to the start of the tourney and if you get through the first weekend an entire other week of nightly exposure.

I do not want to fall into a comparison with Duke because they have a rich history and a fantastic conference, but it was not too long ago that they were a doormat as well.

[mustangxc]

went to the SMU-Rice basketball game on Saturday and came away encouraged by the effort, but quite worried by the attendance. There were only 3/4 groups of SMU backers for a grand total of about 8-10 aside from the players relatives sitting directly behind the team. Additionally, most of the fans at the game were probably 60 and older.

I attended the SMU vs. Houston game in January at Hofienz and the same sized SMU turnout was there just as you described at Autry Court. What's even more depressing is that the Cougar fans and Rice fans have just as meager a turnout as we do when it comes to home attendance. Winning will crank up the numbers. If anyone can make us winners, it's going to be Matt Doughtery. Go Ponies!

I was at the UH game in January as well. This games attendance was more depressing because of the fan demographics. At the UH game there seemed to be fans of all ages, whereas at the Rice game just about everyone was over 60. While I applaud their enthusiasm, I worry that in 10 years schools like SMU and Rice will be left with no fan base.

[friarwolf]

Basketball is just not a Texas thing. Let's face it, football is king in Texas.

M98, don't look behind you................Something significant happened about 12-15 years ago. Kids in Texas were allowed for the first time to play organized basketball in the spring and summer. Before then, if you got caught playing in an AAU summer tournament, you were banned from sports for a year. Hard to believe, huh? Thank the good old high school football coaches who didn't want the kids playing "thump, thump ball" except for 8 weeks a year. Since that restriction was struck down, basketball competition and the skills the kids have has skyrocketed. Texas arguably is now producing more college level talent in terms of sheer numbers than all but about 5 states. In 10 more years, Texas will probably be up there with California and New York. The days of two sports, football and spring football are coming to close. I don't know if basketball will ever be king here but football won't be on the pedestal by itself anymore. More proof? Go to the Kingwood Invitational Tournament held each April in Kingwood and every major college coach in
America will be there at least 2 of the 3 days...............