The Definition of Lack Of Institutional Control

[PK]

Not that it matters, but it seems to me that those who were in control of the institution were also in control of the violations...thus institutional control was indeed in place. Obviously not the type of institutional control the NCAA was looking for.

[Mexmustang]

Everyone seems to have a legitimate opinion. I only wish we could move on an stop beating up on ourselves.

A one year death penalty at Alabama or LSU would not have had the accompanying self-imposed penalty of a second year and certainly not the continued mismanagement for the past twenty. They would have been back and competitive in three years and competiting again for bowls in five.

We, not the NCAA were and have continued to be the problems behind SMU athletics.

[EastStang]

As I said, earlier we were the worst, but there are others who have committed acts worthy of the death penalty. Look at the University of Georgia. In the period from 1978 through 1985, they had four major infractions in various sports. They did not get the death penalty, did it give them an advantage. Hmmm, I'm sure Herschal Walker didn't just come onto campus out of the mist at that time. Or look at the University of Alabama. From 1995-2002, three major violations. Or look at the University of Minnesota from 1988 - 2002 whose frauds were not only in recruiting but also in academics and have also had seven lifetime penalties from the NCAA. Actually, OU has only had one since 1988, but seven over all. A&M has had seven as well, but they are remarkably well spaced. My point in all of this is that the NCAA has had many cases where the opportunity to lower the boom has presented itself and teams which were deserving of the penalty. To say that Jeffrey Dahmer didn't deserve the death penalty because he wasn't as bad as John Wayne Gacy is a false argument. If you do the crime, you should do the time.

[peruna81]

Just to reiterate again...it DOES have something to do with money generated for the NCAA...SMU in the 80's was still not a major revenue-generating institution. Alabama was/is. Georgia was/is. Even Minnesota is.

We got what the law said we deserved. Equal application is now needed to fit the letter of the law, no matter which school, and not just in comparison to the depth of violation SMU had in the 80's.

We chose in '88, and have chosen since, to remain shackled to the death penalty.

As the phrase goes " Follow the money." It leads to arbitrary enforcement of penalties by the NCAA, and selective memories for folks that have a voice in SMU football, then and now.

[SMUstang]

A kind of nobility among theives. The OU scandel may getting close, but no one had the cojones of these cats. There was institutional control by the people who were breaking the rules. Did we deserve the death penalty? ABSOLUTELY. Have others since, probably. Which of the people serving on death row, deserve the death penalty? All of them according to a jury. Have some of them committed more egregious crimes than others? No doubt. You don't just execute the one who was the worst of the bunch, you execute them all. And then you run for President. That's the Texas way!!! Cue the spaghetti western music.

How about Alabama or Baylor Basketball?

[EastStang]

Baylor basketball was terrible, but it was only their second offense, the only other one being in men's tennis of all things. They did get whacked pretty hard because Bliss was non-cooperative and of course someone died. Alabama clearly deserved the DP the last time. Until the NCAA kills a program, the SEC will continue to be a compliance cesspool. So my prediction is that Vanderbilt will get investigated.

[PlanoStang]

I'd say there were plenty dirtier but none that met the definition of lack of institutional control so seemlessly or .

I agree with Stallion, there were plenty dirtier than us. Clemson, and
Florida were before, and during our bad years. I think the ncaa passed
the DP after their scandals to save face. Then they looked for a good
private school small SCAPEGOAT who had previously been
bad

Up until Ron Meyer, our bads were very minor, but severly
punished with TV bans, and no bowls Schools who investigated
themselves, and admitted it nowdays for our first 3, or 4 bads would
be let off with warnings

Our fatal bad started under snake oil salesman Ron Meyer, who was
no dummy, and bailed out when the engine manifold pressure started
going down in the cockpit due to the ncaa Red Baron firing head on
nose to nose assault shots.

Ron Meyer was a snake oils salesman who sold everybody including
the administration on his plan to bring us back. Who knows how much
cheating that involved. All I know is we had to beat a Camaro from A$M
to get Eric Dickerson

Then came Russ Potts, and Mustang Mania went out of control

[WorldStang]

institutional control? hmmm..

[EastStang]

Actually, the money was being paid before Meyer. Smith was handing out cash in the locker room and that got us on probation in the mid 70's. But the death penalty came for violations AFTER Meyer and Potts were long gone. These were payments made during Bobby Collins, Bob Hitch tenure by Clements and Company. I think Potts might have left because they payments weren't going to stop. Notice that he went into sports promotion and kept his mouth shut after that. But you know, I live here in Northern Virginia and have only seen one Russ Potts production, and he's clearly not hurting for money. I always wondered about that. And Meyer left for an NFL job which paid a ton of money.

[peruna81]

er...I think ED arrived on campus with a Trans-Am, maroon, IIRC.

My mind is fuzzy this morning, so I may be incorrect.

Nevertheless, it is time to have Institutional Control applied to becoming competitive in D-1 sports again....a certain lesser school in Ft. Worth is giving painful lessons on how that can be accomplished by a mid-major non-BCS university.

[jtstang]

But the death penalty came for violations AFTER Meyer and Potts were long gone. These were payments made during Bobby Collins, Bob Hitch tenure by Clements and Company.

That's an oversimplification, they were just the straw that broke the camel's back. The death penalty came for a pattern of repeated violations over about a 10 or 12 year period wherein we were on probation about five different times for major infractions. I think we were still on probation from the Meyer days when we got slapped with the DP after the [deleted] hit the fan in Collins' tenure, but that can easily be verified by looking at the major infractions database.

[Nacho]

Butch Worley the point man on the case is now a senior AD at UT. Knock me over with a feather.

[EastStang]

The Death Penalty report from the NCAA noted that because we made the payments during the Collins era while we were still on probation for the Meyer era and were told in no uncertain terms, DO IT AGAIN, AND YOU'RE DEAD! (to quote Tony Soprano). Obviously, if we hadn't cheated during the Fry, Smith, Meyer years the NCAA wouldn't have had gas about the Collins years. The main point of the report though was that when we got the 1983 penalty we were told, that this was our last chance and we still did what we did, intentionally. And so they offed us.

[jtstang]

The Death Penalty report from the NCAA noted that because we made the payments during the Collins era while we were still on probation for the Meyer era and were told in no uncertain terms, DO IT AGAIN, AND YOU'RE DEAD! (to quote Tony Soprano). Obviously, if we hadn't cheated during the Fry, Smith, Meyer years the NCAA wouldn't have had gas about the Collins years. The main point of the report though was that when we got the 1983 penalty we were told, that this was our last chance and we still did what we did, intentionally. And so they offed us.

Exactly, and nobody can show that kind of egregious conduct happened with any other school.

[Nacho]

Does the name Alabama mean anything to anybody? Practically any team who ever played d-1 sports would qualify. It still goes on but a little more subtly and deviously. I love those kids who go to Georgia Tech to become engineers but only stay a year to play bball. I could go on and on.