NCAA and SMU

[Stallion]

the actions of the NCAA AFTER the SMU violations but before the SMU case was heard would have been irrelevant, immaterial and in fact inadmissible in the hearing of the NCAA case against SMU. After the decision the case has become FINAL w/o SMU exhausting its appeallate remedies and w/o SMU suing within the relevant statute of limitation. There is no lawsuit that could be brought that could withstand a summary judgment on those defense. ie. even if somehow miraculously ruled admissible-SMU would never get to tell its story to the jury because the case would have already been decided on procedural issues.

[PhirePhilBennett]

No alumni do not have standing to sue in the name of a university based on precedent in a lawsuit brought by SMU's own alumni in the past

No there is zero possibility of a successful lawsuit against the NCAA because the statute of limitations has long since passed

No no evidence of cheating by other schools (the "everyone is doing it defense") would likely be admitted as a defense to the most brazen, stupid episode of cheating in NCAA history over a 10 year period. Apparently that is some kind of twisted application of constitutional law on strict scrutiny of discrimination against suspect classifications such as race, gender, creed, national origin, religion etc. SMU is not in a suspect classification so the NCAA would only need to show that's its due process was rationally related to a legitimate policy of the organization-a slam-dunk for the NCAA.

No no lawsuit is possible now because SMU did not exhaust its administrative remedies with the NCAA by appealing the decision within the NCAA due process framework. SMU in fact accepted the findings of the NCAA so the Ballgame is over.

Now you can continue with more nonsense.

It would have to be a "state action" case to even get to this argument, counselor. No state action, no constitutional issue to discuss.

[mr. pony]

the actions of the NCAA AFTER the SMU violations but before the SMU case was heard would have been irrelevant, immaterial and in fact inadmissible in the hearing of the NCAA case against SMU. After the decision the case has become FINAL w/o SMU exhausting its appeallate remedies and w/o SMU suing within the relevant statute of limitation. There is no lawsuit that could be brought that could withstand a summary judgment on those defense. ie. even if somehow miraculously ruled admissible-SMU would never get to tell its story to the jury because the case would have already been decided on procedural issues.

Oh yeah? Well, what about this little known codicil?

Today you can sue ANYBODY for ANY d&mn reason you want.

[Stallion]

Correct PPB-the NCAA is a private institution-a voluntary membership of schools who accept the authority of NCAA rules and regulation as a member of the institution. And anybody can sue anyone that is correct. But as I said the case would be decided on a procedural summary judgment issues before the case ever got to trial and before a jury. Any attorney filing such a lawsuit might well be greeted with frivilous lawsuit counterclaim and be forced to pay the NCAA's attorney's fees. I would think there are very very few attorneys who would consider filing such a lawsuit.

[mr. pony]

How about equal protection? That's a good one ...

What Stallion is trying to point out is: the law, the NCAA and the BCS is stacked against small schools.

UT or Ohio State would already be on their 5th lawsuit for SOMETHING and won about 3 of 'em. The NCAA is scared to death of the big boys. Until a little guy weilds some lumber, it will stay that way.

[mr. pony]

[quote="Stallion"] NCAA -a voluntary membership of schools who accept the authority of NCAA rules and regulation as a member of the institution. [quote]

Members must accept the arbritrary application of said rules and regulations? Don't think so, my brovah.

[jtstang]

How about equal protection? That's a good one ...

What Stallion is trying to point out is: the law, the NCAA and the BCS is stacked against small schools.

UT or Ohio State would already be on their 5th lawsuit for SOMETHING and won about 3 of 'em. The NCAA is scared to death of the big boys. Until a little guy weilds some lumber, it will stay that way.

You really are dumb.

[Stallion]

I haven't even gotten to the basic premise of the argument. That there was disparate treatment by the NCAA in the application of the Death Penalty. In order to have disparate treatment you have to have reasonably similar cases in which the NCAA has treated two institutions in disimimilar ways. Unfortunately, your argument fails because no institution has been shown to be dumb enough to have its Board of Govenors and/or its Chairman of the Board of Govenors authorize the continuance of payments to a Payroll after 5 probations in 10 years. We've been asking you for years to show one institution with more blatent lack of institutional control by its governing body but you continue to spout totally dissimmilar examples. Until you can identitfy such an example the entire premise of your argument is garbage.

[abezontar]

I haven't even gotten to the basic premise of the argument. That there was disparate treatment by the NCAA in the application of the Death Penalty. In order to have disparate treatment you have to have reasonably similar cases in which the NCAA has treated two institutions in disimimilar ways. Unfortunately, your argument fails because no institution has been shown to be dumb enough to have its Board of Govenors and/or its Chairman of the Board of Govenors authorize the continuance of payments to a Payroll after 5 probations in 10 years. We've been asking you for years to show one institution with more blatent lack of institutional control by its governing body but you continue to spout totally dissimmilar examples. Until you can identitfy such an example the entire premise of your argument is garbage.

SMU....oh wait, you were looking for another institution...hmmmm...

[mr. pony]

You really are dumb.

OK, so I misspelled "wield."

[mr. pony]

I haven't even gotten to the basic premise of the argument. That there was disparate treatment by the NCAA in the application of the Death Penalty. In order to have disparate treatment you have to have reasonably similar cases in which the NCAA has treated two institutions in disimimilar ways. Unfortunately, your argument fails because no institution has been shown to be dumb enough to have its Board of Govenors and/or its Chairman of the Board of Govenors authorize the continuance of payments to a Payroll after 5 probations in 10 years. We've been asking you for years to show one institution with more blatent lack of institutional control by its governing body but you continue to spout totally dissimmilar examples. Until you can identitfy such an example the entire premise of your argument is garbage.

No, it seems all you would have to do is show that many other schools met the requirements for the death penalty and didn't get it.

[mrydel]

It was my understanding that the premise for a lawsuit at this time was not due to the death penalty but rather the unequal treatment of the BCS schools verus the Division 1A mid majors. We were at one point in time all Division 1A and all of a sudden the BCS gave an unfair monetary and exposure advantage to several of the selected schools.

While I fully agree that there is no "going back" to sue in reference to the death penalty for all of the reasons given, I would be insterested as to whether there would be any basis for action on the unequal treatment BCS vs. mid major theory.

[PK]

If my understanding is correct, other than the fact that all the BCS schools belong to the NCAA, the NCAA has no direct involvement with or authority over the actions and contracts of the BCS. The BCS is a completely separate organization from the NCAA. Obviously made possible as a result of the lawsuit brought by OU which lead to the individual schools having the sole rights in contracting TV contracts. The NCAA dares not try to regulate the BCS even though the participating schools are all members of the NCAA because they fear the financial reprecussions of doing so. I'm not even sure that the NCAA could bar a BCS school from a bowl game as those are, at least in the BCS, contracted by the individual schools through their affiliation with the BCS. Unless the other members of the NCAA are willing to challenge the BCS participants in court, nothing will change and the rich will get richer and the rest of us can go to hell. We could try to all leave the NCAA and form a new organization, but with all the money provided by the BCS schools, the NCAA may not even care.

And this my friends is why Div 1-A will never have a playoff system for football. It's the Golden Rule, those with the gold rule.

[mr. pony]

It was my understanding that the premise for a lawsuit at this time was not due to the death penalty but rather the unequal treatment of the BCS schools verus the Division 1A mid majors.

Oh.

Never mind.

[mrydel]

If my understanding is correct, other than the fact that all the BCS schools belong to the NCAA, the NCAA has no direct involvement with or authority over the actions and contracts of the BCS. The BCS is a completely separate organization from the NCAA. Obviously made possible as a result of the lawsuit brought by OU which lead to the individual schools having the sole rights in contracting TV contracts. The NCAA dares not try to regulate the BCS even though the participating schools are all members of the NCAA because they fear the financial reprecussions of doing so. I'm not even sure that the NCAA could bar a BCS school from a bowl game as those are, at least in the BCS, contracted by the individual schools through their affiliation with the BCS. Unless the other members of the NCAA are willing to challenge the BCS participants in court, nothing will change and the rich will get richer and the rest of us can go to hell. We could try to all leave the NCAA and form a new organization, but with all the money provided by the BCS schools, the NCAA may not even care.

And this my friends is why Div 1-A will never have a playoff system for football. It's the Golden Rule, those with the gold rule.

Ok Spock. I would rather hear from Bones on the subject.