Big Ten Expansion? CUSA Impact?

[East Coast Mustang]

I cant believe some of the nonsense being spouted on this thread.....SMU to the Big 10? Southern Miss to the SEC? I think I recently heard the ACC is looking hard at booting out UNC and adding Longwood once their Division I status is finalized.

Seriously though, there are only a few teams in the Big Ten expansion picture that make sense: ND (first and foremost, for obvious reasons), Syracuse (historically solid program, makes geographic and media/financial sense), Louisville would be a good fit, and Mizzou for the STL/KC market. I don't see Rutgers making sense geographically, and its not like they command a significant share of the NYC market.

If Mizzou bolts, things get weird for the Big 12. Arkansas probably wont come back, do you add TCU (who makes the most sense on the surface, but what division do you put them in? OSU/OU/Texas probably arent getting split up). Do they go west, for a Colorado State, Utah, or BYU, or maybe even Boise State (highly unlikely)? It would be very interesting to see how that situation unfolded. What if Colorado says f-it (as someone suggested earlier) and bolts for the PAC-10? What if Texas and TAMU bolt for the SEC? Then all bets are off...we're talking government involvement. It's funny how a one team addition to the Big 10 could dramatically alter the landscape of college sports for years to come.

The idea of a resurrected SWC has always intrigued me, and theres enough quality teams close by to make it work from a financial and geographic standpoint (especially if you can convince OU and/or Arkansas to join). It would probably be the result of some type of class action lawsuit or congressional action mandating fairness in NCAA conference affiliations, but it may be SMU's best (and only) shot at rejoining a power conference.

Of course all this is a moot point if ND gets over their superiority complex and joins a confernece like everyone else, or the BCS powers that be grow a pair and tell them to take a hike.

[PhirePhilBennett]

Seriously though, there are only a few teams in the Big Ten expansion picture that make sense: ND (first and foremost, for obvious reasons), Syracuse (historically solid program, makes geographic and media/financial sense), Louisville would be a good fit, and Mizzou for the STL/KC market.

Where in the "F" did you get off thinking that a commuter school 'fits well' with the Big T1e1n?

ND clearly has no plans of joining a conference after announcing all their games in San Antonio, Dallas (Arlington), and Florida (?, or was it Georgia) through what, 2012? Pleeze...

Cuse, Pitt, Missouri, ISU, Nebraska are the only true candidate, if at all.

Southern Miss is the best team in Mississippi over the last 20 years, the last 10 years, and the last 5 years.

[East Coast Mustang]

Seriously though, there are only a few teams in the Big Ten expansion picture that make sense: ND (first and foremost, for obvious reasons), Syracuse (historically solid program, makes geographic and media/financial sense), Louisville would be a good fit, and Mizzou for the STL/KC market.

Where in the "F" did you get off thinking that a commuter school 'fits well' with the Big T1e1n?

ND clearly has no plans of joining a conference after announcing all their games in San Antonio, Dallas (Arlington), and Florida (?, or was it Georgia) through what, 2012? Pleeze...

Who are you referring to as a commuter school?

As for ND, it will be interesting to see how much longer they can survive as an independent...if they keep winning, then obviously everything is swell, but if they have several consecutive subpar seasons which isnt implausible considering the brutal schdules they play each year, would NBC continue to subsidize their ineptitude when they could sign a broadcast deal with another big conference?It may be more beneficial for ND at some point in the not so distant future to join a conference like everyone else, especially when that conference (the big 10) is one of the most financially lucrative conferences in America.

Cuse, Pitt, Missouri, ISU, Nebraska are the only true candidate, if at all.

Syracuse- agreed
Mizzou- agreed
Pitt- Doesn't add a whole lot- fifth best football team in the Big East, basketball is good but Penn State still dominates that market.
ISU- Absolutely ridiculous. For one, I dont know if Iowa would allow it, and secondly they add NOTHING. No major media market, football and hoops are nothing special, but I'm sure the other eleven Big 10 schools would love to do a little goodwill and split their TV revenues up with another school who adds ZERO market value. It's the same reason the ACC added BC over WVU last time around, except WVU is leaps and bounds ahead of ISU in both football and basketball.
Nebraska- Interesting scenario, didn't think about this one, but it seems like a long shot just because of their tradition with Colorado, OU, KSU, etc. Not out of the question though, I guess.

Southern Miss is the best team in Mississippi over the last 20 years, the last 10 years, and the last 5 years.

You must be a USM alum/parent/faculty member. I mean, would you have thrown Marshall into the ACC equation four years ago? Politically, Ole Miss and MSU would veto it in a heartbeat, and secondly they again add nothing. If the SEC adds anyone in the future, it's gonna be big, and I mean huge. We're talking superconference- Miami, FSU, VT, Texas, and TAMU are going to be the candidates.

[PhirePhilBennett]

Seriously though, there are only a few teams in the Big Ten expansion picture that make sense: ND (first and foremost, for obvious reasons), Syracuse (historically solid program, makes geographic and media/financial sense), Louisville would be a good fit, and Mizzou for the STL/KC market.

Where in the "F" did you get off thinking that a commuter school 'fits well' with the Big T1e1n?

ND clearly has no plans of joining a conference after announcing all their games in San Antonio, Dallas (Arlington), and Florida (?, or was it Georgia) through what, 2012? Pleeze...

Who are you referring to as a commuter school?

As for ND, it will be interesting to see how much longer they can survive as an independent...if they keep winning, then obviously everything is swell, but if they have several consecutive subpar seasons which isnt implausible considering the brutal schdules they play each year, would NBC continue to subsidize their ineptitude when they could sign a broadcast deal with another big conference?It may be more beneficial for ND at some point in the not so distant future to join a conference like everyone else, especially when that conference (the big 10) is one of the most financially lucrative conferences in America.

Cuse, Pitt, Missouri, ISU, Nebraska are the only true candidate, if at all.

Syracuse- agreed
Mizzou- agreed
Pitt- Doesn't add a whole lot- fifth best football team in the Big East, basketball is good but Penn State still dominates that market.
ISU- Absolutely ridiculous. For one, I dont know if Iowa would allow it, and secondly they add NOTHING. No major media market, football and hoops are nothing special, but I'm sure the other eleven Big 10 schools would love to do a little goodwill and split their TV revenues up with another school who adds ZERO market value. It's the same reason the ACC added BC over WVU last time around, except WVU is leaps and bounds ahead of ISU in both football and basketball.
Nebraska- Interesting scenario, didn't think about this one, but it seems like a long shot just because of their tradition with Colorado, OU, KSU, etc. Not out of the question though, I guess.

Southern Miss is the best team in Mississippi over the last 20 years, the last 10 years, and the last 5 years.

You must be a USM alum/parent/faculty member. I mean, would you have thrown Marshall into the ACC equation four years ago? Politically, Ole Miss and MSU would veto it in a heartbeat, and secondly they again add nothing. If the SEC adds anyone in the future, it's gonna be big, and I mean huge. We're talking superconference- Miami, FSU
, VT, Texas, and TAMU are going to be the candidates.

Louisville is a a COMMUTER SCHOOL. Think of it as North Texas, with a really good football program now.

ND aint' going ANYWHERE now that they are winning (Though I would argue that they are a false BCS-bowl team since their wins are mostly all against really bad teams these past few years).

I've never been to USM, don't like them by any stretch.

You thought MIAMI would join the Big 10 ... they just LEFT the Big East because the TRAVEL SUCKS...why would they even consider leaving the ACC to have their nearest away game 1200 miles away?

Everyone needs to remember that it's not just football, it's women's crew, women's cross country, etc. That takes a ton of money to fly them across the country.

Anyone get excited about the Iowa State - Texas game in Iowa? Or that huge rivalry between Kansas and Texas Tech?

Big12 has this as a legitimate problem. SEC would add USM because it is GEOGRAPHICALLY DESIRABLE. Demographics and population centers are changing, which is why Boise State can and will continue to be a legit team. USM would get much better recruiting if they were in a better conference, as would we. Why do you discount that idea so much? Do you hate the Eagles or something?

[East Coast Mustang]

Louisville is a a COMMUTER SCHOOL. Think of it as North Texas, with a really good football program now.

ND aint' going ANYWHERE now that they are winning (Though I would argue that they are a false BCS-bowl team since their wins are mostly all against really bad teams these past few years).

I've never been to USM, don't like them by any stretch.

You thought MIAMI would join the Big 10 ... they just LEFT the Big East because the TRAVEL SUCKS...why would they even consider leaving the ACC to have their nearest away game 1200 miles away?

Everyone needs to remember that it's not just football, it's women's crew, women's cross country, etc. That takes a ton of money to fly them across the country.

Anyone get excited about the Iowa State - Texas game in Iowa? Or that huge rivalry between Kansas and Texas Tech?

Big12 has this as a legitimate problem. SEC would add USM because it is GEOGRAPHICALLY DESIRABLE. Demographics and population centers are changing, which is why Boise State can and will continue to be a legit team. USM would get much better recruiting if they were in a better conference, as would we. Why do you discount that idea so much? Do you hate the Eagles or something?

Louisville has a great basketball tradition, and their rise to football prominence in the last 10 years rivals what Miami did in the 80s (without the championships) They have great facilities and would add a decent media market and make perfect geographic sense for the Big 10.

Youre right though, ND wont go anywhere as long as NBC and the BCS contunue to bend over to their tradition

I never said anything about Miami in the big 10, thats ridiculous- I said they would be a candidate for SEC expansion if the SEC ever went for a super conference proposal. USM is just ridiculous, again, they add nothing. Sure, they make geographic sense, but so would Tulane, whos in a bigger market and could recruit much better in a bigger conferecne as well- should they have been added in 98 when they went undefeated? 5 years of solid CUSA play doesnt merit SEC membership, sorry. Hell, why not throw in East Carolina, Central Florida and UAB while were at it? The SEC would probably take all four of those schools before USM, but theyre not looking to CUSA anytime soon, I dont think.

[PhirePhilBennett]

1. Tulane has no following and no alumni. It's a small private school. USM is a large public university.

2. You have not disputed that Louisville is
a) a commuter school
b) of substandard academic status such that they wouldn't even warrant a second thought by the Big10.

[Mexmustang]

As long as Royal is alive, he will never permit UT to have to compete with anyone but A&M and OU for players in Houston or DFW. TCU, SMU and UofH can forget it. The last thing he wants is to aid in developing a football power in either city.

[Sam I Am]

The BT made it clear that they are looking East, as in the Big East, if they expand. 'Cuse or Rutgers is their seocnd choice. They won't get ND yet. This is not the begining of nationwide conferecne realignments. The wannabes can back off because only a big name, strong program will ever get a BCS invitation, and it is not us. Calm down boys. The pre-seaosn is nearly here when you will have some real football to talk aobut.

[PhirePhilBennett]

The BT made it clear that they are looking East, as in the Big East, if they expand. 'Cuse or Rutgers is their seocnd choice. They won't get ND yet. This is not the begining of nationwide conferecne realignments. The wannabes can back off because only a big name, strong program will ever get a BCS invitation, and it is not us. Calm down boys. The pre-seaosn is nearly here when you will have some real football to talk aobut.

Rutgers flash in the pan success is not going to excite the Big10. Plus, they are too far away for any real sense of rivalry. Pitt and Cuse are it from the BEast

[East Coast Mustang]

1. Tulane has no following and no alumni. It's a small private school. USM is a large public university.

2. You have not disputed that Louisville is
a) a commuter school
b) of substandard academic status such that they wouldn't even warrant a second thought by the Big10.

I like how on one hand you think it's implausible that Louisville would be considered by the Big Ten and then you throw Southern Miss around for SEC expansion!

While the Big Ten prides themselves on their academics, and Louisville isn't exactly Northwestern, it's not a terrible school academically and is actually well renowned nationally for its medical research center. I don't know anything about their status as a commuter school, but I do know that according to the Princton Review, U of L has a lower acceptance rate for undergrads than current Big Ten members Indiana and Iowa. And let's face it, in today's college athletics landscape money matters more than anything, and Louisville has great facilities (the football stadium is planned for expansion to 63,000 soon and a new downtown basketball arena is also being proposed), strong revenue sports programs, and is one of the highest selling merchandise brands in all of college sports right now. (I think they were at or around 30th last year, unquestionably ahead of many Big Ten schools). There are also the only show in town in a signficant media market.

The SEC could give two s**ts about academics, but Southern Miss would definitley be the worst academic institution in the conference. Again, they add nothing- no great sports to speak of, absolutely no history, facilities are decent at best, but they do add a third team in the already booming Mississippi media market. Under what kind of a scenario would you envision them being added? If Arkansas leaves for the Big 12, which is highly unlikely, then the SEC is going after Louisville or perhaps Memphis, or maybe one of the Florida ACC schools. There's no way in HELL they're adding USM, Ole Miss and MSU wouldn't even allow it to begin with so it's not even worth discussing.

I can tell you this much, the Big Ten would look long and hard at Louisville before the SEC brass even figured out what town USM is in.

[EastStang]

First, the SEC won't expand - 12 is a nice number of mouths to feed. They would only look for a team if Arkansas were to leave for the Big XII. Then and only they would they look for a team. I suspect that they would try and raid the ACC if that happened. Now back to the Big Ten. If they don't get ND, and they go east for Syracuse, the BE would be shopping for a new member. Syracuse is not a world beater in football and is a solid basketball member of their brand. So, they would merely have to add a team that was adequate in football and perhaps solid in basketball. That could come from CUSA. Memphis would be a great pick-up for them. But remember no matter how strong the BE gets in basketball, NCAA is not going to give them more than 8 bids and likely not allow them more than 7. They may not want to add a great basketball program because they already have: Villanova, UConn, Georgetown, DePaul, Lousville, Pitt, West Virginia, Marquette, and Notre Dame, not to mention Rutgers, St. John's and Seton Hall. They may want to shore up their football brand. To do that and stay "eastern" they have really only have a few choices: Navy, USM, Marshall, ECU, Villanova, Delaware, Temple and UCF. UCF gives USF a travel partner and is in a decent metro area- Orlando, but would also hurt USF in recruiting. Marshall, USM and ECU aren't in big markets. Navy would be an attractive candidate and would not want to join all sports. However, Navy has long rebuffed any conference requests because the Army-Navy CBS deal and the annual Notre Dame game give it plenty of cash. Villanova is a BE all sports member but 1-AA in football and has long resisted upgrading to 1-A and would not add to the football brand. Temple was kicked out because of facility and attendance problems. Delaware has great fan support, but is 1-AA and part of its success is attributed to the fact that it recruits players with one or two years of eligibility remaining. It would have to give that up to go 1-A. However, BCS $$$$ could help it change its mind. That said, Syracuse might not want to move. It has long term ties in basketball with many of the BE schools like Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's and Seton Hall. It would lose access to the New York City market because it woud lose an annual game with St. Johns and BE annual tourney at MSG. In other words, despite the $$$$ involved, it might hurt them in the long run. Also their dome only holds what 42,000? Would the Big 10 want them to build a new dome, because Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State would probably not be too keen on road games at Syracuse.

[PhirePhilBennett]

1. Tulane has no following and no alumni. It's a small private school. USM is a large public university.

2. You have not disputed that Louisville is
a) a commuter school
b) of substandard academic status such that they wouldn't even warrant a second thought by the Big10.

I like how on one hand you think it's implausible that Louisville would be considered by the Big Ten and then you throw Southern Miss around for SEC expansion!

While the Big Ten prides themselves on their academics, and Louisville isn't exactly Northwestern, it's not a terrible school academically and is actually well renowned nationally for its medical research center. I don't know anything about their status as a commuter school, but I do know that according to the Princton Review, U of L has a lower acceptance rate for undergrads than current Big Ten members Indiana and Iowa. And let's face it, in today's college athletics landscape money matters more than anything, and Louisville has great facilities (the football stadium is planned for expansion to 63,000 soon and a new downtown basketball arena is also being proposed), strong revenue sports programs, and is one of the highest selling merchandise brands in all of college sports right now. (I think they were at or around 30th last year, unquestionably ahead of many Big Ten schools). There are also the only show in town in a signficant media market.

The SEC could give two s**ts about academics, but Southern Miss would definitley be the worst academic institution in the conference. Again, they add nothing- no great sports to speak of, absolutely no history, facilities are decent at best, but they do add a third team in the already booming Mississippi media market. Under what kind of a scenario would you envision them being added? If Arkansas leaves for the Big 12, which is highly unlikely, then the SEC is going after Louisville or perhaps Memphis, or maybe one of the Florida ACC schools. There's no way in HELL they're adding USM, Ole Miss and MSU wouldn't even allow it to begin with so it's not even worth discussing.

I can tell you this much, the Big Ten would look long and hard at Louisville before the SEC brass even figured out what town USM is in.

You don't see the difference? SEC is the low-end of state schools, c'mon man.

Big10 is the high end. Louisville is NOT considered a top tiered school. I will say, the SEC might consider Louisville, but NOT the Big10...show me one 'credible' rumorville site that even suggests such a thing.

[Stallion]

yeah but he has a point. Who on god's green earth ever thought that Virgina Tech would be invited to the ACC. Louisville in FB during the last 10 years-or whenever that first Fiesta Bowl bid was-has overachieved more than any program in the country. The perrennial contender in BB makes them a double threat. I doubt Louisville ever goes higher than 3rd choice for the Big 10 but they are a stronger possibility than Southern Miss to the SEC-that will never happen. They got the facilities. If Louisville had not suffered some key injuries in the last few years Louisville could very well have played for a National Championship.

[PhirePhilBennett]

yeah but he has a point. Who on god's green earth ever thought that Virgina Tech would be invited to the ACC. Louisville in FB during the last 10 years-or whenever that first Fiesta Bowl bid was-has overachieved more than any program in the country. The perrennial contender in BB makes them a double threat. I doubt Louisville ever goes higher than 3rd choice for the Big 10 but they are a stronger possibility than Southern Miss to the SEC-that will never happen. They got the facilities. If Louisville had not suffered some key injuries in the last few years Louisville could very well have played for a National Championship.

However, VaTech is a TOP TIERED academic school.

Really, the only reason they got in the ACC was to satisfy the Virginia government...to get the "UVirginia" vote on ACC expansion. That's a wholly different issue.

I don't think that Louisville has a 'buddy' school that really wants them in the Big10. The academics would seriously derail any consideration for Louisville - making Cuse and Pitt much better fits.

I will back down and say that Louisville would be a better fit for SEC than SMiss - if you could get Kentucky to agree. They may not like them joining...

As for

[East Coast Mustang]

However, VaTech is a TOP TIERED academic school.

Really, the only reason they got in the ACC was to satisfy the Virginia government...to get the "UVirginia" vote on ACC expansion. That's a wholly different issue.

I don't think that Louisville has a 'buddy' school that really wants them in the Big10. The academics would seriously derail any consideration for Louisville - making Cuse and Pitt much better fits.

I will back down and say that Louisville would be a better fit for SEC than SMiss - if you could get Kentucky to agree. They may not like them joining...

As for

You're right, U of L doesn't fit academically, but will academics matter as much as money this time around? If you'll remember, Syracuse (not VT) was going to be the ACC's 12th member last time around until some 11th hour changes- it actually got pretty complicated as you pointed out- then VA governor Mark Warner pretty much told UVA president John Casteen that he had better make sure Tech got in the ACC to protect the school's athletic program. Obviously, as you point out, Louisville doesnt have a buddy school like that, but then again neither does Syracuse, Rutgers, or Mizzou. Will the other Big Ten schools really blindly choose an academically comparable school again this time around, or will they go with a school which will further maximize their exposure and TV contract money? It will be interesting to see. Big ten cmmish Delaney said the conference would benefit from another "big name school" in a "large market" and I think Louisvillle fits that mold better than any school not named Notre Dame.

I googled things like "Louisville Big Ten expansion" and I found lots of blogs and other message boards discussing the topic, but nothing credible- I will concede that.