Johnny's Solution

[MustangStealth]

How can you say that we haven't been competitive in Division 1 athletics? Look at every sport besides football. We are more than competitive in many of them. Why should we punish all of our top-rate programs by dropping to Division 2 (not 1-AA, which changes very little for other sports) because our football team is struggling?

We should follow the lead of a friend of mine. He didn't give up when he couldn't get a degree after 8 years. He kept coming back and coming back, and eventually, well nevermind the eventually. The point is he kept trying.

[Prof X]

Originally posted by Stallion:
now Professor X you suggest that JUCOs really aren't going to make a big difference-let's agree to disagree in Football because I know we will disagree there-but what about BB where JUCOs now play such a prominent role-I forgot the number I calculated of WAC recruits last year in BB-it was something like 66% were JUCOs/CC. I would submit to you that I can make an argument that the essential difference between SMU and the WAC championship in each year we have been members were outstanding JUCOs on the champion. You're not going to concede to me that JC/CC players have become an integral component of just about every successful program in the WAC, MWC, Big 12, CUSA and SEC-and again those are the conferences I know best. And if not-name one?

I don’t think we have to agree to disagree on football, or anywhere else. I haven’t said that a few JC players wouldn’t help, and I’m not opposed to recruiting them. I just don’t agree that its any kind of ultimate solution. You’ve told us several times that the San Jose State football team has brought in the best class of JC players in the country, for the last 2 years. That would be their junior and senior classes now, so they should be loaded with talented upperclassmen, but that didn’t help them beat Rice, the team that doesn’t take any JC players. San Jose’s basketball team recruits almost exclusively from the JC ranks, and they’re absolutely pitiful, a permanent resident in the WAC cellar.

I’m fully in favor of using JC recruiting to help our athletics programs, and I’m fully in favor of reviving the PE program to make it easier for some athletes to transfer. However, I cannot simply ignore the cost of such a move. I refuse to be intentionally blind. If we want something done there is a price to be paid, and this goal is unlikely to be achieved if people refuse to acknowledge the cost. The same goes for the basketball practice gym that is mentioned on the basketball page, its something we need in a serious way, but it wont get done until the money is raised, and that money is going to have to come from us, the loyal fans and alums.

I think a lot of people have forgotten that we, the alumni of SMU are really the true ultimate guardians of both our university and our athletic program. If we want something done, we’re the ones who are going to have to do the work to see it through, because we are the ones who have a real emotional attachment to university. We cannot sit back and wait for “the administration” be it athletic or academic, to do something for us. We are a small school, and if we want success we cannot lean on a big school mentality.

In regards to basketball, you know that I speak to our basketball coaches fairly frequently, and I know which JC players they have actually tried to pursue. If you haven’t already guessed, I’m the person who writes the posts as “The CPC”. I can tell you definitively that there is no prohibition on recruiting JC players and no prohibition on players who were not fully qualified out of high school. They would tell you so themselves, if you took a moment to speak with them. The hang up is now, and always has been, transferable hours. So, if you want to fund a PE program to help in that area, I’d be all in favor of it. Incidentally, the hour limits are about to become an even bigger problem for not just SMU, but everyone. In the past the NCAA has required a player to have 48 transferable hours (12 per semester) to be eligible at a Division 1 school. One of the Bball coaches told me that the minimum is about to go up to 60 hours (15 per semester). Many JC athletes don’t even take 60 hours in their first 2 years, so finding juco recruits is about to become harder for everyone.

If you really need me to name one team from the Big 12, I guess we should start with the Texas Longhorns. There were no JC/CC transfers playing a role in their run to the Final Four last year. If you need me to I can tell you where every one of those guys went to high school.

Finally, I was serious about Tulsa. They have no PE degree or majors designed just for athletes. Yet they have found more than a few JC recruits for football, and don’t seem to have any trouble finding basketball players. Maybe we should ask them how they do it.

[buspen]

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Finally, I was serious about Tulsa. They have no PE degree or majors designed just for athletes. Yet they have found more than a few JC recruits for football, and don’t seem to have any trouble finding basketball players. Maybe we should ask them how they do it. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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I have two cousins playing for Tulsa, one FB and the other BB. It's interesting listening to this discussion because this is and has been the same discussion Tulsa fans have been complaining about for years. Tulsa's JC recruits are a result of a unusual relationship at a couple of JC's and finding those couple of kids who actually want to be engineers, a couple of transfers have worked out but several have and will not due to academic problems. More over many will not even entertain TU because to the transfer of hours issue. Even if they were to take the hit, many times they cannot overcome the NCAA minimums required for upper classmen due to the simple loss of a significant number of hours. Over all there will not be much difference between SMU and TU transfers once we factor in the Tech transfer and the Air Force CB. Additionally, TU just added a Health Sciences major to try to fill the PE void. Similar to SMU they have an education certification program for teachers which dovetails with the Health Sciences major. They did not have to develop a new department just added a major to the School of Science(?)or what ever they call it.

While we're talking about Tulsa and their turn around. Tulsa doesn't have but 6-7 FB players that could start at SMU, but the new coach has done two things, first is a wide open offense, note last week the QB lead the team in passing, rushing and reception yd. They throw to any body and everybody, secondly even though they literally cancelled their spring game because they did not have enough players for a full scrimmage, he instilled a trust in what players he has regardless of what he perceives their talent to be. He does not play conservative but just the opposite he plays 2-3 deep and trusts they will do the job, now the kids have taken their lumps and are starting to believe, they are playing above their heads.

<small>[ 10-09-2003, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: buspen ]</small>

[click]

Good Post Prof X

[MizterTea]

<img src="http://www.toyzone.co.uk/images/02260-1.jpg" alt=" - " />

[pony63]

Originally posted by Johnny Rock:
It is evident that the administration has not committed to being competitive in Division 1 athletics for the past 20 years. It is hard to blame coaching when SMU has more restrictions placed on athletes than most other Division 1 schools. The 0-5 start is really no suprise considering that the players that are beating us could not even get accepted to SMU. Since the administration, i.e., Turner, Copeland, and the Board, do not want to fully commit to athetics, then we should drop to Division II so that we can field a competitive team. It appears that we are headed for a winless season as Johnny predicted several weeks ago. It is not Bennett's fault or his coaching staff, just as it was not Cavan's fault or Rossley's fault. The blame lies with the administration. We could replace Bennett with another coach, but we will still lose. At least, we could win a few games at the Division II level.

[pony63]

JOhnny Rock, I believe we are in the second year of a five year commitment by Turner and Copeland to football and basketball. The commitment includes additional money for coaches of those sports to travel to scouting functions that other Div. I schools have attended for years but we have not been able to. There are other things involved in the five year commitment that I can't remember(an age thing). We will see if it a real commitment and what results we see as a result.
Thanks for your input.

[Stallion]

PK you maybe correct about UT last year-I don't have the time right now to check or access to a roster that shows that-but the UT program does recruit JC/CC players-they got Edgar Moreno this year from Lon Morris and two years ago they had a power forward whose name I forget. They also signed Kenny Taylor of Baylor-not sure if there was an issue of transferrable hours with the Baylor kids but apparently SMU wasn't in the running for these kids. I think Kansas had a JC within the last few years but quite frankly with only 3-4 ships each year schools like Kansas and UT don't have to recruit JC/CC players because they have their choice of the creme of the crop anyway. Of couse, nationally successful Big 12 coaches like Eddie Sutton, Bobby Knight and Kelvin Sampson and the other Big 12 schools rely HEAVILY on JC/CC despite

[PK]

Stallion, as much as I would like to take credit for being that knowledgeable, I think you mean PX, as in Prof X. We all know I don't know that much about anything.

[Prof X]

I know who Edgar Moreno is, I said quite some time ago that he would step in to replace TJ Ford. He's not quite as good as Ford, but more than able to run UT's offense. The power forward you are thinking of may be Chris Owens, who I think actually transferred from Tulane, not a JC.
I didnt say that UT never signed a transfer, only that it wasnt a major part of their program, its not something they have to rely on. As you observed and as evidenced by the recruiting class they will sign this year (possibly the best in the country) UT and other schools like Kansas can get the best high school players. I didnt want to make a big issue of this, but you asked me for one name, so I gave you the Longhorns.
Knight has surprised me a bit with how heavily he has leaned on JC recruiting, but it may in part be because of the situation he inherited at Tech, and the new NCAA limits on the number of players you can sign in a year. He had just 4 players staying over from the previous team when he took over at Tech and needed a quick fix, and now has had to turn around and quickly replace the guys he brought in for that first class.

JC recruiting is a tool we can use to make our programs better, but its not a cure for all that ails us, and its not the only way to skin a cat. Thats what I'm saying. I dont think we're that far apart here.