JUCOS are not the answer

[Cheesesteak]

When despair caused by losing frustrates ardent SMU football fans somebody is sure to wave the "let's get JUCOS flag".

I don't think that JUCOS should be SMU's answer.

A high school athlete with enough proven athletic ability or perceived potential to receive one or more D-1A football scholarship offers can expect hand-holding and preferential treatment from an institution's admmissions office that is inimaginable to ordinary applicants.

For example, take HDT (Huge Defensive Tackle). HDT can collapse an offensive line and free linebackers to make tackles for little or no gain. Unless HDT is a recent immigrant to America or started playing football in his junior year, he has been observed since his HS freshman year and coddled since his sophomore year.

Let's assume HDT, who has college coaches salivating, gets four legitimate scholarship offers (Northwestern, Texas, LSU and Mississippi State).

HDT will get favortism in the admmissions process. HDT's background and paperwork will be given every consideration. His athletic skills have motivated colleges to offer him a tuition-free education. High-quality academic support, advanced dietary offerings and a number of other advantages await him.

All he has to do is get a yes from a system that wants to say yes to him.

HDT has coaches, athletics-minded administrators and boosters among others pulling for him.

Next, the four admissions offices make their decisions: Northwestern simply can't ignore HDT's below-marginal academic creditentials. It makes the Texas coaches sick to tell HDT that UT's admissions office said no. LSU is thinking about HDT taking them to another SEC title game but HDT can't get accepted. The real schocker is that MSU won't take him.

So, HDT goes to...junior college.

After two years HDT might have become a competent student or he might have slid through the JUCO while bringing glory to the JUCO's defensive line.

Is HDT really ready to handle the curriculum (possibly as a physical education major) at a D-1A university? On campus, is HDT much more than a football player? Possibly.

JUCOS present a dilemma. Are their courses reasonably comparable to those at a four-year university? Does the JUCO have legitimate academic credibility? Possibly.

Lot's of schools actively recruit JUCOS. Some programs like Oklahoma use JUCOS to "re-load" and fill a need at a particular position. Some schools like Fresno State have largely built their programs on JUCO talent.

Take a look at the WAC in 2003:

Boise State takes JUCOS and is 4-1 (with no quality wins).

Fresno State loves JUCOS and is 3-3 (with one quality win).

Hawaii takes Jucos and is 2-3 (victories over Appalachian State and Rice).

Louisiana Tech takes JUCOS and is 2-3 (victories over La-Lafayette and Michigan State (20-19) (MSU made stupid mistakes - giving up two touchdowns within 69 seconds at the end of the game)).

Nevada takes JUCOS and is 3-2 (victories over Southern Utah, SJSU and SMU)

Rice generally avoids JUCOS and is 1-4

SJSU loves JUCOS and is 1-4 (victory over Grambling State)

Tulsa is stingy with JUCOS and is 3-2 (with no quality wins and losses to ranked Arkansas and Minnesota)

UTEP loves JUCOS and is 2-4 (victories over Sam Houston State and SMU)

If JUCO talent is such a cure-all then why aren't JUCO-positive WAC teams piling up quality wins or even lots of wins?

Maybe WAC teams don't attract the top JUCO talent. Maybe top JUCO talent wants to play in Auburn, AL, Knoxville, TX, or Corvallis, OR.

Would SMU attract top JUCO talent?

Just like getting one or two or three top players, directly out of HS, doesn't quickly turn a losing program into a winner, getting one or two or three top JUCOS doesn't quickly turn a losing team into a winner.

Deep (well-coached) talent within a program, not just at a few positions, plus team chemistry creates winners.

JUCOS are like your favorite chips or pretzels. One or two won't satisfy you. SMU would have to commit to a half-dozen to a dozen new JUCOS each season to change the program. Remember, SMU as an institution is not structured to approve the transfer of many credits from any JUCO student (athlete or otherwise). Most of SMU's transfer students arrive from community colleges or other four-year colleges.

I believe that SMU is following the correct course by recruiting its football players directly out of high schools. I also hope that SMU finds a home in a geographically compact conference with historic rivals. SMU football currently has everything it needs to compete in the WAC (I would not have made this statement until recently).

For example (within the WAC):

SMU has one of the finest stadiums/training facilities.

SMU has one of the top academic curriculums.

SMU is in one of the most fertile recruiting areas.

SMU is in Dallas.

SMU has relaxed its athletics admissions policies.

SMU has a gorgeous campus.

SMU has immediate playing opportunities for top talent.

SMU has a proven salesman in HC Phil Bennett.

Let's not panic and unfairly associate the past decade and a half of football-related frustrations with the current staff.

SMU's will eventually win consistently at the mid-major level with a steady infusion of fresh talent each fall.

Until proven otherwise, I believe Coach Bennett will attract enough HS talent to turn SMU football into a winner.

Go ponies.

[Casey]

Damn, you've spent some time doing your homework there. Looks like you've covered every angle, and for what it's worth, I agree with you. I want to see HS players who want a great education, want to invest 4 or 5 years in the program and take a program as far as it can go. JUCOs just don't do it for me.

[VarsityShop]

Wow if I didn't know any better, I think Cheesesteak just put STALLION in his place!

I agree with Cheessteak: NO JUCOS @ SMU!

<img src="http://www.prosserschools.org/heights/images/Stallion.gif" alt=" - " />

[BUS]

The BUS agrees with most of what you have said Chesse but....
Given that SMU is working to build a program - Yes admission standards have been adjusted - now our athletes are not asked to be better than normal students. The coaching staff can send visit invitations before a prospect is admitted. Seems simple but SMU tied their own hands for YEARS.

I would like to be able to fill in holes from transfers and/or injury losses with JUCO players. SMU will never become a JUCO harlot as some that you mentioned have become.

Simply put... It's just another tool to fix a team.

[EastStang]

A JUCO needs transferable hours. We don't have an education department any more. As was pointed out in another post, no one wants to pay $30,000 a year for an $18,000 a year job. Thus, a physical education major inside an education department would be an expensive proposition for the University. So this is not a wave the wand issue. There are two ways to deal with this issue. (1) Continue to do without, meaning few JUCO transfers, or (2) Announce a plan to start such a Department upon proper funding and with a game plan for funding. I would suspect that one of our most illustrious education majors, Laura Bush, might lend her support to such an effort. Such funding would require endowments in the Millions. However, if you had say a $50 Million education department endowment, you could fund 8-10 professorships if they had supplements from grants. Then, you would need to recruit professors with distinguished credentials for such a department. You would need a building for the Department (Another $10-20 Million). So, you would be looking at probably a five to ten year process to put such a department in place. This would at least be a start. I suspect that some of our folks who are at SMU pursuing what some would call their "MRS" degree, would gladly opt for an education major particularly if the school had some classes or even a major in "home schooling" which would blend in with a fairly large movement in this country (like Computer Gaming). Just my two cents. So, gang it would be a long time before we could actually put those JUCO's on the field. Brother can you spare $60 Million?

[Stallion]

I read your little JUCO disortation and it is obvious that you have only a naive understanding of the role of JUCOs in Division 1A. It was good to hear your "feelings" about JUCOs. Now how about actually studying the facts. Every school in Texas(except Rice), the SEC, the Big 12, the WAC(except Rice), the MWC takes JUCOs. That means every champion, every bowl team and every NCAA Tournament Team in those conferences for the last 10 years at least relies upon JUCOs. You are simply uninformed-but I'm not surprised because the uininformed like you seem to make the decisions around here. The other conferences I am a little less familiar with since I don't follow their recruiting as closely but I's estimate a good 85% of those schools take JUCOs. BTW I have never called for widespread use of JUCOs but I think we should be able to sign 3 in FB and maybe 1-2 in BB to fill holes. Please don't pass on your uninformed information without checking your facts. Before you can solve a problem you got to know what you are talking about.

<small>[ 10-09-2003, 06:46 AM: Message edited by: Stallion ]</small>

[50's PONY]

See "Interesting Recruiting Story" under "recruiting." Tyler J.C. also has one very similar who went to Kentucky but now wants to play closer to home.

[Cheesesteak]

Stallion, you wrote:

"Every school in Texas (except Rice), the SEC, the Big 12, the WAC (except Rice), the MWC takes JUCOs. That means every champion, every bowl team and every NCAA Tournament Team in those conferences for the last ten years at least relies upon JUCOs".

*** The flip side of your arguement is that every last place team and next to last place team and second to last place team (football and basketball) in those conferences at least relies upon JUCOs.

*** Your response inferrs that Air Force Academy takes JUCOS. Does AFA take JUCOS?


"BTW I have never called for widespread use of JUCOS but I think we should be able to sign 3 in FB and maybe 1-2 in BB to fill holes".

*** What words in my original post (JUCOS are not the answer) made you assume that I was writing with you in mind? I was writing to frustrated SMU fans in general.

Go Mustangs.

[Stallion]

that has got to be the stupiest argument I have ever heard-EVERY TEAM IN THOSE CONFERENCES HAS JUCOs.-Air Force has its own prep school which a recent expose posted on this board and the WAC Forum shows enrolls from 75-100 high school graduates a year as a junior college equivalent. They run Air Force's formation and a huge percentage of Air Force's team first played at the Prep School-I forgot the figure but even I who has known generally of this practice was shocked at how many come from this prep school. Air Force has the biggest advantage over NCAA rules than any team in America since they are not restricted by the NCAA scholarship limitations since they don't give athletic scholarships.

<small>[ 10-09-2003, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: Stallion ]</small>

[PK]

Originally posted by VarsityShop:
I agree with Cheessteak: NO JUCOS @ SMU!

I don't think he was saying "No JUCO's at SMU" In fact we are getting a very good one next year in Bobby Chase. What he was saying is that getting JUCO's in and of it's self is not the answer to our problems. Not all JUCO's are the same...just like HS recruits, some are better than others. If they have transferable hours or are willing to lose some just to be here, the right kid could help immediately since he should already have some college football experience as opposed to a true freshman, though there are no guarntees on that either.

<small>[ 10-09-2003, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: PK ]</small>

[Hoop Fan]

I personally think that reality is that you must take a certain amount of academic risks to field a D-1 football program. And you have to give some special treatment to accomplish that. Is that the way it should be in utopia? No. But until college athletics reforms NCAA wide, if it ever does, thats the landscape we operate in. Thats the moral/ethical price of being D-1 for universities. Standards and requirements are fine, but there need to be a certain number of exceptions to the rule. 5 or 10 dumb jocks are not gonna hurt a university. Tulane has used a certain number of special admits for their football program for years now. They don't have any Jucos, but they are a better school than SMU and I guarantee they are taking equal to greater liberties in recruiting athletes. You know TCU is. Why should that be? Ironically, our academic policies may help get us into CUSA. I'm sure we have Scott Cowen and Tulane's vote because we operate in a way they can relate to. Now back to Jucos in particular, we need physically mature and experience players in several key spots right now. Where else do you get those if not Junior Colleges where guys can come in without sitting out a year? Seems like a no brainer to me to get 5 or 6 jucos who are ready to play now.

[giacfsp]

Hey East Stang: would you rather see money raised for the establishment of an education department endowment, or for a basketball practice facility (and Moody facelift) as proposed on the Basketball board? Just curious.

[EastStang]

To be honest, I'd rather see the money raised for a high quality education department for a bunch of reasons. (1) It would not only appeal to athletes as I said earlier, (2) it would help JUCO's with transferable hours, (3) most Universities have them as did SMU until it was disbanded. I don't know about Texas, but in the County I live in there are over 500 jobs in the school system that pay over $100,000 per year. So the tuition does have an upside potential.

[Prof X]

Originally posted by EastStang:
To be honest, I'd rather see the money raised for a high quality education department for a bunch of reasons. (1) It would not only appeal to athletes as I said earlier, (2) it would help JUCO's with transferable hours, (3) most Universities have them as did SMU until it was disbanded. I don't know about Texas, but in the County I live in there are over 500 jobs in the school system that pay over $100,000 per year. So the tuition does have an upside potential.

East, I think I have mentioned before that SMU does have an Education department. We offer the same classes to get the same teaching certificate that every other school in Texas offers. No schools offer an undergraduate Education major, because you must have a degree in another subject to become a primary school teacher in Texas, that law was passed about 12 years ago.

[BUS]

Prof X Address and Phone number to e-mail address.
Thanks
GSS