Alleged Louisville Insider FWIW

EastStang · Post by **EastStang** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:43 pm

If the criteria is "WOW" its not Kragthorpe. Nutt, Shula, Barnett, or either Bowden would be more of a "WOW" kind of hire. It would be really nice if Orsini is playing these guys off against each other to keep the price down.

Sunshine Pony · Post by **Sunshine Pony** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:48 pm

SMU Football Blog wrote:I love how so many insiders know so much about what is going on at so many schools.

A few do. Many do not.

mustangxc · Post by **mustangxc** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:57 pm

Shula may be flashy, but Shula and Nutt would not "wow" me. I'm not even sure they would get things righted at SMU. I probably have more faith in Kragthorpe turning things around here based on his results at Tulsa. Tommy Bowden would also be great based on his success at Tulane. Barnett, Terry Bowden, Davis, Erickson would definitely wow me. Ty Willingham's stock may be low this year but he would be great too!

Dwan · Post by **Dwan** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:19 pm

it still amazes me how 5 years ago we were comparing Phil Bennet and Charlie Waters and now we are discussing/being critical of coaches who have won big at BCS schools. We really have a great AD and also goes to show you fans, will never be satisfied unless you win every game, even at SMU

Hoop Fan · Post by **Hoop Fan** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:01 pm

Dwan wrote:it still amazes me how 5 years ago we were comparing Phil Bennet and Charlie Waters and now we are discussing/being critical of coaches who have won big at BCS schools. We really have a great AD and also goes to show you fans, will never be satisfied unless you win every game, even at SMU

who are we dismissing? Kragthore has not won big at a BCS school. One losing year at Louisville. the fact that he had a few seasons at tulsa where they mariginally outperformed SMU (ie 8 wins instead of 6) is not all that comforting. Especially since we know tulsa is fairly committed to athletic success and has been for awhile as evidenced by their basketball success. We still dont know if we are.

mustangbill67 · Post by **mustangbill67** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:13 pm

I think Stallion's source "TVCard" is either BigDaddyxx69 or a transvestite cardinal.

Pony Fan · Post by **Pony Fan** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:22 pm

I am truly thrilled that we have stallion's opinion about Kragthorpe.

SMU Football Blog · Post by **SMU Football Blog** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:27 pm

Hoop Fan wrote:
Dwan wrote:it still amazes me how 5 years ago we were comparing Phil Bennet and Charlie Waters and now we are discussing/being critical of coaches who have won big at BCS schools. We really have a great AD and also goes to show you fans, will never be satisfied unless you win every game, even at SMU

who are we dismissing? Kragthore has not won big at a BCS school. One losing year at Louisville. the fact that he had a few seasons at tulsa where they mariginally outperformed SMU (ie 8 wins instead of 6) is not all that comforting. Especially since we know tulsa is fairly committed to athletic success and has been for awhile as evidenced by their basketball success. We still dont know if we are.

Little misleading there. Kragthorpe took a team that finished 1-10 and 1-11 and went 8-5; three bowl games; one conference championship; Tulsa did better at SMU every year he was there.

mustang91 · Post by **mustang91** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:51 pm

Stallion is right. Why did Krag have success at Tulsa? He upgraded the players Tulsa was giving previously. Who recruited all those talented players for Krag? Todd Graham did! Graham was with Krag since 2003 and kicked our [deleted] in recruiting every year. Graham came into Tulsa from West Virginia already plugged into the DFW metroplex from recruiting for WV here and his days of coaching in Allen. Like Stallion said maybe we should be hiring Graham.

Hoop Fan · Post by **Hoop Fan** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:53 pm

SMU Football Blog wrote:
Hoop Fan wrote:
Dwan wrote:it still amazes me how 5 years ago we were comparing Phil Bennet and Charlie Waters and now we are discussing/being critical of coaches who have won big at BCS schools. We really have a great AD and also goes to show you fans, will never be satisfied unless you win every game, even at SMU

who are we dismissing? Kragthore has not won big at a BCS school. One losing year at Louisville. the fact that he had a few seasons at tulsa where they mariginally outperformed SMU (ie 8 wins instead of 6) is not all that comforting. Especially since we know tulsa is fairly committed to athletic success and has been for awhile as evidenced by their basketball success. We still dont know if we are.

Little misleading there. Kragthorpe took a team that finished 1-10 and 1-11 and went 8-5; three bowl games; one conference championship; Tulsa did better at SMU every year he was there.

You could also say that Bennett took a program that went 0-12 and turned it around to 6-6. I concede Tulsa outperformed SMU, the question is by how much and why? Also, you cannot dismiss the head to head edge that SMU had over Tulsa during those years for whatever reason. Bennett beat Tulsa like a step child last year and should have beatem them this year no doubt about it.

SMU Football Blog · Post by **SMU Football Blog** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:54 pm

mustang91 wrote:Stallion is right. Why did Krag have success at Tulsa? He upgraded the players Tulsa was giving previously. Who recruited all those talented players for Krag? Todd Graham did! Graham was with Krag since 2003 and kicked our [deleted] in recruiting every year. Graham came into Tulsa from West Virginia already plugged into the DFW metroplex from recruiting for WV here and his days of coaching in Allen. Like Stallion said maybe we should be hiring Graham.

This isn't what Stallion said at all. Sure, he would gladly take Graham adn he believes that superior talent wins football games, but he not disparaged Kragthorpe the way you described. Not at all.

mustang91 · Post by **mustang91** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:02 pm

SMU Football Blog wrote:
mustang91 wrote:Stallion is right. Why did Krag have success at Tulsa? He upgraded the players Tulsa was giving previously. Who recruited all those talented players for Krag? Todd Graham did! Graham was with Krag since 2003 and kicked our [deleted] in recruiting every year. Graham came into Tulsa from West Virginia already plugged into the DFW metroplex from recruiting for WV here and his days of coaching in Allen. Like Stallion said maybe we should be hiring Graham.

This isn't what Stallion said at all. Sure, he would gladly take Graham adn he believes that superior talent wins football games, but he not disparaged Kragthorpe the way you described. Not at all.

When I said "Stallion is right" it was meant as far as "not the WoW factor." The rest is my opinion. Thanks though is nice to know someone actually reads my post.

Stallion · Post by **Stallion** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:02 pm

That's correct-in fact I think Kragthorpe may be the best Offensive Mind on our list-but I do have reservations of the "face" he will put on SMU recruiting. I would rather have Graham-I'd probably want Bowden, Davis(if I could keep from laughing) and even Shula before Kragthorpe. Shula has the pedigre, tools-he may just put it all together. And I don't think ANY Head Coach is a master of both sides of the field. Take one or the other and get Good Coordinators. If I had to choose one give me the Offensive Mind like Leach and Dodge and I'll go get a less expensive Defensive Coordinator.

mustang91 · Post by **mustang91** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:05 pm

By the way Blog. I've always wondered why do you have Ryan Seacrest as your avatar?

mustangxc · Post by **mustangxc** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:10 pm

Hoop Fan wrote:
SMU Football Blog wrote:
Hoop Fan wrote:
Dwan wrote:it still amazes me how 5 years ago we were comparing Phil Bennet and Charlie Waters and now we are discussing/being critical of coaches who have won big at BCS schools. We really have a great AD and also goes to show you fans, will never be satisfied unless you win every game, even at SMU

who are we dismissing? Kragthore has not won big at a BCS school. One losing year at Louisville. the fact that he had a few seasons at tulsa where they mariginally outperformed SMU (ie 8 wins instead of 6) is not all that comforting. Especially since we know tulsa is fairly committed to athletic success and has been for awhile as evidenced by their basketball success. We still dont know if we are.

Little misleading there. Kragthorpe took a team that finished 1-10 and 1-11 and went 8-5; three bowl games; one conference championship; Tulsa did better at SMU every year he was there.

You could also say that Bennett took a program that went 0-12 and turned it around to 6-6. I concede Tulsa outperformed SMU, the question is by how much and why? Also, you cannot dismiss the head to head edge that SMU had over Tulsa during those years for whatever reason. Bennett beat Tulsa like a step child last year and should have beatem them this year no doubt about it.

I respectfully disagree. Kragthorpe did a much better job at Tulsa than PB at SMU.

TU pre-Kragthorpe:
2000 5-7
2001 1-10
2002 1-11

TU under Kragthorpe
2003 8-5 Humanitarian Bowl
2004 4-8
2005 9-4 CUSA champions, Liberty Bowl
2006 8-5 Armed Forces Bowl

Post-Kragthorpe
As you can see, he left the program in good shape.

SMU under Cavan
1997 6-5
1998 5-7
1999 4-6
2000 3-9
2001 4-8

SMU under Bennett
2002 3-9
2003 0-12
2004 3-8
2005 5-6
2006 6-6

Going forward I don't know if we have the pieces in place to win 6-7 games next year, but I think it is pretty convincing that Kragthorpe at TU was infinitely better than Bennett at SMU. That 0-12 record is irrelevant because it happened under his watch. Bennett took a 4-8 team and subsequently won 3-0-3 games the next three seasons. While our offense is much better now that it was in 2001, our defense is clearly much worse. I like Bennett and am not a Cavan defender, but these are the facts.