The Common Denominator

[Stallion]

....you know you can foolishly I think argue that Bennett "just can't motivate the boys" and that he "isn't focusing on the fundaments" or you can argue that Bennett, correctly I think, is saddled with the results of some poor recruiting under Cavan(not entirely his fault). But if indeed SMU has made a Commitment to Winning as it claimed when SMU fired Cavan then how does Copeland escape blame for SMU's descent to the ROCK BOTTOM of the Bottom 10 when he's the Guy who hired both the MORONS. I'm not suggesting anybody get fired just wondering how the Sunshiners would spin that little fact. Can't argue lack of even playing field because he sold the Commitment. Can't argue is was Frick or Frack's fault because he hired both!!!!!! I guess he's left with "its those two MORONS I hired that are at fault!" Think he ought to start reading out of SMU Former and Endangered Species Coaches' Hymnal and start beating the uneven playing field angle.

<small>[ 10-28-2003, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Stallion ]</small>

[KnuckleStang]

If we want to blame somebody, blame:

1.) Sherwood Blount, Clements, Hitch and all those other fools, and
2.) the faculty senate, till about 2 years ago.

Preferably in that order. But not Copeland.

[OldPony]

Please explain again to me Stallion how we are ranked by Sagarin and some others below the top 170 football teams. Did all 170+ of those teams have better recruiting than we did under Cavan? Didn't you always have SMU ranked in the top 117 of college football? You like to call names and quote facts- Here is the perfect opportunity to shut me and others like me up with facts. When was an SMU recruiting class ranked lower than 107?

[Stallion]

the senior class had 1 three star player as I remember according to Rivals-as anyone that follows these services knows just about any recruits whose breathing and gets a Division 1A scholarship gets a 2 star on Rivals at least before this year. Our senior class was ranked somewhere from 95-100 based on total score and there were probably about 114 Division 1A schools at the time. They didn't give scores for average score per recruit back then but if they did I'm sure we probably would have finished just about at the bottom of the barrell. No body rates Division 1AA recruiting. The fact is that the players SMU recruited in that class as well as the players at some of the other bottom dwellers are so obscure that ratings at the bottom are worthless. Fact is our recruits got very few top offers from Division 1A- if you remember I used to call it Bottom-Fishing-waiting to see who everybody else wanted and taking the leftovers-may sound harsh but that is exactly what was happening back then- And I gave everybody on these boards a day-by-day description of just how un-competitive we were in recruiting and would adversely affect our talent level for years. Finally, let me assure you that if services did give grades for Division 1AA schools you would be surprised at how many top prospects they get. Go ask HomeComing1965 Boy -Sam Houston St. gets kids like McClown and Thomas Derricks from Notre Dame every year. Chris Sanders transfers-6-8 guys from UT transfer into those schools every year and many more from programs across the country -as a matter of fact some of those schools have produced many more players in the pros than SMU over the years. Finally, for the 100th time most other schools recruiting at the bottom of college football like NTSU for example,cut corners by picking up non-qualifiers/partial qualifiers like Jonas Buckles and Brandon Kennedy, JUCOs and Division 1 Transfers whose recruitment is never reflected in the ratings.

<small>[ 10-28-2003, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Stallion ]</small>

[Mike Damone]

Old Pony-
It is because we have won no games. Period. We actually could be much much lower except we have a pretty decent strength of schedule ranking. It's a computer ranking that basicly mixes won/loss with strength of schedule.

Lots of the teams in front of us are above us because they have more wins. Would we have more wins if we played in the Ivy League. Yes-insert a sarcastic "would we?" here-but yes we would. And would we be ranked higher. Better? No. ranked higher? Yes.

If we would have scheduled Brown instead of Tech, we might be 1-7 and ranked higher in the computer's mind, but would we be any better than we are?

<small>[ 10-28-2003, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Mike Damone ]</small>

[Dr Jeske]

The bottom line is Bennett has to tear down before he builds up. That is not a one year proposition. There are other coaches who get immediate success, who go with the flow of what they got when he started at the place.

You can't get me to agree that Tulsa had more talent to work with than SMU, but have four wins to show for it so far.

Some of his decisions are questionable, but overall I think he'll get it back to repectable or the next instant sucess will have a lot to work with

[EastStang]

Some of the 170 schools ahead of us, we might be able to beat just because we're bigger. Now, to respond to Stallion's rant. I hope you're being sarcastic there Stallion. You've usually reserved your venom for the administrators not Copeland. I assume the two morons that you refer to are Cavan and Bennett. Let's give Bennett four years of recruiting good players and then see whether we want to fire the guy or not. If his play calling still is questionable after four years, we can bring in a coach who is a known commodity (because he knows he's getting a fully stocked cupboard). Sort of like TCU did with Franchione. So let's put the Kool Aid away and let the team play out the rest of the season and hopefully show some pride. Just think next year can't be any worse. Maybe we get 2 or 3 quality JUCO's for next year to go with our large numbers of underclassmen and perhaps improve to 1 or 2 wins next year.

[Bergermeister]

Name calling..... that's cool.

[Stallion]

I have not advocated the firing of any coach at SMU since the Death Penalty and that includes Rossley. The morons refer to the vast majority of SMU fans on here that have advocated the firing of each and every coach when that is really a comfortable knee jerk reaction to the real problems in this program. If indeed I'm wrong and they are right at what point does the person making the hires deserve some examination. The firing of Cavan was a sort of passing the buck-on the one hand admitting that the Model made it impractical to compete under and on the other hand blame Cavan for the problem. I'm just pointing up the food chain where the real problem lies and blame should be directed towards those who are responsible for the Model.

<small>[ 10-28-2003, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: Stallion ]</small>

[Prof X]

Originally posted by Stallion:
I have not advocated the firing of any coach at SMU since the Death Penalty and that includes Rossley. The morons refer to the vast majority of SMU fans on here that have advocated the firing of each and every coach when that is really a comfortable knee jerk reaction to the real problems in this program. If indeed I'm wrong and they are right at what point does the person making the hires deserve some examination. The firing of Cavan was a sort of passing the buck-on the one hand admitting that the Model made it impractical to compete under and on the other hand blame Cavan for the problem. I'm just pointing up the food chain where the real problem lies and blame should be directed towards those who are responsible for the Model.

Of course Copeland should be held accountable for the success or failure of the people he chooses to hire, and for the success or failure of the Commitment that he engineered and the success or failure of the athletic department overall. Thats the yardstick by which an athletic director is evaluated. He makes policy for the entire athletic department and its success or failure is a reflection of his managership.

Who do you think has been discouraging the recruitment of JC players these last few years? Only one person can make policy that affects the entire department. I tried to drop you this hint over the summer, but it apparently flew over your head. Both our mens and womens basketball teams recruited JC players routinely in the years following the DP, I even gave you a list of Shumates recruits. So, when/why did that stop? You never did quite work that one out.

I read your other post, Mr. Wynne, the one about back-stabbbing and whining, etc. I'll have a response for you on Friday, I'm not going to have time between then and now to write a proper response.

[MrMustang1965]

Originally posted by Stallion:
...Go ask HomeComing1965 Boy -Sam Houston St. gets kids like McClown and Thomas Derricks from Notre Dame every year.

SWEET CHRISTMAS, Stallion! Get your facts straight! :thumbdown: DL Thomas Derricks is a transfer from Northwestern, not Notre Dame! And he held out for a year before transferring to SHSU because of an injury.

http://www.shsu.edu/~ath_www/football/defense.html

[PlanoStang]

Well, I didn't name him Copeland to myself for nothing. The only good thing I can say about Copeland is he has stuck around, and hasn't used Smoo as a stepping stone to a better job. See ADs Doug Singleton, Russ Potts, and Forrest Gregg.

Okay, maybe the Shreveport Pirates didn't work out for Forrest, and I've lost track of Singleton.

Anyway, I think he fires coaches just to stir things up. Maybe to increase attendance, and interest the next year, or so. Rossley didn't deserve to be fired, and Shumate has the last
SMU men's B-Ball conference championship. See
the Boston Red Sox recently.

[GoRedGoBlue]

I would argue that nobody would have had any success to speak of until the 'relaxed' admissions process was instituted.

Cavan had to be fired for his association with losing, which was mostly not his fault. I could almost believe that he would have been successful at SMU had he not been hampered by these restrictions.

Its very similar to when NORM SONJU fired Richie Abudabu (??) for leading the Mavericks to 11 wins or something and he said, "Richie did the very best with what he had..." SO WHY FIRE HIM THEN.

The only explanation is that after 5 seasons of losing ground you have lost your players and it's time to start anew.

The very thing that worried Rossley was these recruiting process - the incredibly stupid process...he indicated much hesitation before accepting the HCoach position when offered, due to this very fact. Ultimately, it was a head coaching job, so how do you turn that down?

Yes, COPELAND hired Cavan, he is responsible, but he was not responsible for the recruiting restrictions, though HE HAS been able to work with TURNER to get them relaxed. Much the same as it wasn't entirely CAVAN's fault, it wasn't COPELAND's fault at all, either (we can argue over whether Cavan is a good game day coach or not, which is also another reason as to why he was fired).

[GoRedGoBlue]

Shumate sucked. He only stayed in coaching for the lifestyle. The MOTION OFFENSE...give me a break.

[PlanoStang]

I say again Shumate has the only conference championship in bball, and Rossley shouldn't have been fired.

If Jerry Lewis had been our AD, then Mr. Ford wouldn't have got our new football stadium built
somehow?