TCU considering....?

[Stallion]

Yes I think I could sell a TCU-Utah, New Mexico, Colorado St, BYU et al game both nationally and locally better than a matchup with Rice and Tulsa. SMU is slighty different because it is the Metroplex rivalry.

[Southland]

Originally posted by Stallion:
No that's where you are wrong-there are fundamental long term reasons why Rice, SMU and Tulsa suck. It ain't cyclical at least until those schools change their admission policies. Rice hasn't been to a bowl game in 43 years. SMU has had 1 winning season in 14 years and no bowls or championships, Tulsa has had I think 1 winning season in 9 years something like that.

There are more schools in the conference than SMU, Rice and Tulsa... referring more towards Marshall, Southern Miss, et al. in terms of conference power rankings... :showoff:

[EastStang]

Really? How about Wyoming, San Diego State, and Boise State vs. Memphis, Tulane, and UH? If you're going not going to compare trash to trash then I won't either. Let's look critically at the two conferences. First, remember what broke up the WAC 16. BYU, CSU, AFA, Wyoming, and Utah wanted to play each other every year. The rest of the WAC wanted BYU, AFA and CSU moved around. Thus, you know that they'll make darn sure any new comers know that they'll be playing each other every year or they'll be no invite. If they add one team and its TCU, that's fine for TCU. But if they go to 12, I am sure that they'll want a mountain time zone team in their clique. Either Boise, UNM or UNLV. That means that TCU will be in a division with probably, Fresno, Hawaii, UNLV, UNM, SDS (or Boise for one of those). So they get three home games with three of those teams every year. What a deal. Then their one other conference home game will be against either Wyoming, Utah, AFA, BYU, CSU, and Boise. Two sell-outs every 6 years. In CUSA they get UH, every other year, and they may get Army or Navy every other year. So, what do they gain? AFA, BYU, and CSU are all marginal this year.

[Stallion]

the fact is that TCU would be placed in a conference with 5 private schools and 1 underperforming commuter school playing in a high school stadium. All those private schools seem to feel that don't have to make the sacrifices to compete that TCU has. TCU fans would be more likely to want to remain in CUSA if Rice, Tulsa and probably SMU as well were not added.

<small>[ 11-03-2003, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: Stallion ]</small>

[bhop]

Hey Stallion, your replies raise a question in my mind. Frankly, I'm sure you've answered this 100 times, so bear with me. Do you think that the change in admission policies/standards at SMU over the past few years are enough to (over the long term) level the playing field? Or do you think the university has to lower the bar even further?

[MizterTea]

Originally posted by Stallion:
the fact is that TCU would be placed in a conference with 5 private schools and 1 underperforming commuter school playing in a high school stadium. All those private schools seem to feel that don't have to make the sacrifices to compete that TCU has. TCU fans would be more likely to want to remain in CUSA if Rice, Tulsa and probably SMU as well were not added.

First off Stallion is correct, tcu has done what it needed to to get themselves in an ideal position - and SHAME ON SMU for beating itself up for 10 years about the D*#$@ P)!@#*@#

I said on this very board that tcu deserved to be considered the best team in Texas, since they had one all their games. However, I believe that in a game against UT, Tech, or OSU, they would be beaten - regardless of home field advantage. I saw a very middle of the big 12 pack A&M team, hand tcu its [deleted] in a bowl game a few years back.

That being said, it they want to go chasing glory in the MWC - I would not stand in their way. As we all know from the WAC, it is a dangerous thing to be the eastern most team in a western time zone conference. I do not believe that the MWC will get a BCS bowl berth - nor do I believe that tcu will reacah Miami status. But who are we to knock them for trying?

I personnally would not support this move at this time if I was a tcu alum - because it is premature and overly-emotional. They are already feeling the sting of a BCS berth that they haven't even been denied yet (I know you tcu fans and I know you are already worried about that undefeated non-BCS season). They are already thinking about how to play better teams to improve that schedule strength - even at the risk of hurting other sports programs. I have even heard that the coaches do not want this move - but it is being driven by the adminstation for some reason.

But it the end, it is their decision to make, and only time will tell how it all works out. IN the meantime, SMU needs to stay the course and get focused on getting its own house in order - because (if we take a lesson from Nebraska) no program, no matter the resources) can stay on top forever... SUCKAS !

[EastStang]

Why then should SMU, Tulsa and Rice leave the WAC? Gee, Fresno, Hawaii, and Boise State are such great draws, perhaps we're making a mistake leaving the WAC and joining UH, UAB, USM, Marshall, etc. We had 10,000 people show up to see a good Boise State team play SMU. A top 15 team last year. No one travelled from Boise to SMU. Do you think they'll travel to Ft. Worth? No. So, it will just be the usual Frog faithful. And what happens if TCU reverts to pre-1998 calibre? But if the Frogs want to play better teams, they can go to the MWC.

[Stallion]

I think the schools or at least level of competition with which I aspire to compete-Texas Tech, Baylor, Houston, TCU, OSU all are taking bucos of JUCOs, transfers and/or partial qualifiers. I don't think that you can expect SMU to compete on a consistent level with that type of program if you are handicapping your program. I would like to see SMU allow minimum NCAA qualifiers and about 3 FB JUCOs a year and 1-2 JUCO BB players a year especially to fill gaps in the talent pool at positions of need. I'll let the chips fall where they may under those conditions. I really can't tell you what the percentages of non-acceptance of the borderline minimum qualifier are at SMU. I know it appears easier to get more kids into school than 4-5 years ago but it plays a substantial role in the equation. Of course, even I'll admit that there are going to be some changes in NCAA admission standards which will affect this discussion and equation greatly. For example, in coming years the NCAA will no longer require a minimum SAT/ACT and will have more hour requirements for JC transfers. How will SMU respond-how will our opponents?

[gostangs]

part of the equation is also having a path to advance to a degree - right now we can't really keep the JUCO guys in school. TCU has it - we don't - so basically we are saying to the ones we want - we won't accept your hours and you probably won't finish the year here - its time to bring back Phys Ed, Radio TV Film etc...There is not one successful school at the level we are trying to get to who does not have a place to park the players.

[GoRedGoBlue]

I understand, but it is a bad decision. TCU could upgrade their non-conference schedule, play the CUSA champ game, and still do well.

They will die a slow death moving out west. Recruiting will start to falter the moment they have one poor year (i.e., 6-5).

Patterson is going to get a bigger job soon, if not next year.

It's going to be hilarious to watch them whither away if they make this move.

[bhop]

Well, I was all set to watch TCU "wither away" when Fran left. It didn't happen. I'm not sure that the Toads are going to wither away any time soon, regardless of the conference.

[Charleston Pony]

this really is a tough decision for TCU. I can appreciate their concerns about playing in a weakened CUSA. There can be no denying that CUSA is going to lose 3 of it's upper echelon football teams (with only Marshall as a good immediate replacement) and all but Memphis among it's top bball programs (with only Tulsa adding any valueon the hardwood). Will the MWC invite TCU as a 9th member and hold there? Will the addition of the DFW market and TCU football be a boon for the MWC in it's TV negotiations? Will they keep their Liberty Bowl slot? All things to consider.

Those who predict doom and gloom for TCU attendance wise should stop to think about the fact that TCU has increased their attendance to MWC-type numbers and are doing so without benefit of a large number of visitors. They appear to have a solid 30k fan base these days, something SMU may never accomplish. The fact is that Houston, SMU, Rice and Tulsa fans DON'T travel to support their teams, so TCU is no worse off in the MWC than they would be in CUSA.

Bottom line for me is that they will remain our only true rival, regardless of whether they play in CUSA or the MWC. I think La Tech and their "giant killer" reputation would make a great replacement for TCU in the CUSA-west, if it comes to that.

If TCU does leave, we could try to schedule them and Baylor as non-conference foes and perhaps even play UNT again. Now that would be as local a non-conference schedule as you could possibly put together. Good for attedance and good for the budget, something we cannot afford to lose sight of. The "Commitment" ain't forever!

[Hoop Fan]

thats right and guess what? they can always come back to the bus league. You guys that are thinking they will be frozen out forever if they want to come back are dreaming. If they want to pay to play, they will. Its their money. I find it hilarious how everyone knows best without having any semblance of the complete facts: future tv contracts (not current) and actual incremental travel costs (not your guess).

[Bergermeister]

T Si U ain't goin' anywhere. They'll be right here in CUSA. Book it.

[EastStang]

Really? What happens if they return to pre-1998 form? Will their attendance hold at 30,000 if that happens? What happens when the Fab 5 decide to have drinks again in the Denver Airport lounge? What happens if that $200,000 turned out to be a gross miscalculation and it is really $1,000,000 (which would be my guess once you add-in non-football travel costs). The other schools may think for a minute or two and say, you know, you kissed us off when we were down, why should we rescue you? If that happens, TCU would be left there holding their proverial.....