You cannot put Coker in same category as

by **Hoop Fan** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:47 pm

Barnett and Mason at all. Dont even try. Those guys have built challenging programs to bowl teams from scratch basically. Thats what SMU needs. thats the experience that counts in our situation. Bowden and Neuheisal haven't necessarily built our type program up before, but they are salesmen. Salesmen are needed in turnaround situations, not career assistants and X and O gurus. Alot of you word twisters are trying to suggest Cokers looks are why people don't fully support thte idea of him as coach. Thats crap. Terry Bowden aint the best looking person around, but thats not the point. Sorry but energy and charisma need to be part of the job description here.

by **SMUMan02** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:32 pm

Hoop Fan wrote:Barnett and Mason at all. Dont even try. Those guys have built challenging programs to bowl teams from scratch basically. Thats what SMU needs. thats the experience that counts in our situation. Bowden and Neuheisal haven't necessarily built our type program up before, but they are salesmen. Salesmen are needed in turnaround situations, not career assistants and X and O gurus. Alot of you word twisters are trying to suggest Cokers looks are why people don't fully support thte idea of him as coach. Thats crap. Terry Bowden aint the best looking person around, but thats not the point. Sorry but energy and charisma need to be part of the job description here.

Interesting, especially in light of the fact that his record is better and he has won Championships.

by **Hoop Fan** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:34 pm

your analytical skills are truly impressive.

by **BRStang** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:35 pm

I agree with Hoop Fan. All true points.

by **huskerpony** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:47 pm

I don't think any of them are in the same category.

For SMU's purposes:

Barnett > Coker > Mason

Barnett has recruited at and won his conference at a bottom-feeder program with tougher academic standards than their competition. Turned Northwestern around in a matter of a few years.

Coker won a National Championship at a perennial powerhouse--whether this was with his players or not--he obviously has the ability to coach and win big games. Recruiting at SMU??????? No way to know.

Mason? What the hell has this guy ever done anywhere? He barely has a winning record: 123-121-1. He had one good season at Kansas and one good season at Minnesota in 20 years of coaching. He actually has MORE LOSING SEASONS THAN WINNING SEASONS. His best bowl appearance was the Sun Bowl, and he coached in two conferences that have so many bowl tie-ins they can barely field enough bowl eligible teams to fill them every year.

GLEN MASON SHOULDN'T BE IN ANY CATEGORY EXCEPT UNEMPLOYED!

by **Hoop Fan** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:01 pm

I'm not the biggest mason proponent, but I think his history is better than you are making it sound. He was hired away from kansas to Minnesota because of what he was doing at a tough spot as a HEAD COACH. Didnt he also get offered the Georgia job? The guy is a head coach persona who did some good things at Minnesota just was never going to get over the hump in the Big 10 at Minny. Coker never would have been a head coach, certainly not at a place like Miami, had he not been in the right place at the right time. Thats the guy we think is going to turn us around? no way.

by **huskerpony** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:54 pm

Coming in 2nd in the Big 8 when Oklahoma was terrible isn't that great of an accomplishment. They had a good team in '95, no question, but there wasn't much competition. They did beat Colorado, but got beat by Nebraska 41-3 and K-State 41-7. (Granted, Nebraska beat all of their opponents by an average of 37 points that year.) But still, they only won 1 of the 3 big games they played that year.

Their non-conference schedule that year was Cincy, UNT, TCU, and Houston. Not very stellar, especially in 1995.

http://www.phys.utk.edu/sorensen/cfr/cf ... ansas.html

No doubt Mason is a good guy. I know he is respected in the coaching fraternity, but for the life of me, I don't understand why. (Kevin Cosgrove is too, and he obviously ruined the defenses at Wisconsin and Nebraska.)

Except for that one year, KU football was a joke in the Big 8 throughout his tenure there. Fat Mangino has done far more for KU football than Mason could have ever hoped for (although he has also benefited from an incredibly weak schedule, Nebraska and Colorado sucking, and no OU or UT on the schedule this year too.)

Mason came in 5th (out of eight) in the Big 8 the two years prior to his 10-2 year, and 9th (out of twelve) in the Big 12 the following year. Iowa State was a bigger threat than Kansas for many of the years he was at KU.

He only went better than .500 in conference play 2 times in both the Big 8 and the Big 10, and was never able to sustain the small amount of success he had. He has overall losing records in both conferences as well (Big 8: 25-37; Big 10: 32-48 )

I know he was coaching in difficult situations, but he had more than enough time to turn both programs around and didn't succeed. (Although I don't really consider KU and Minnesota difficult coaching situations though. No more difficult of locations to recruit to and no tougher academic standards than their competitors, and both universities are totally dedicated to their athletic programs--only thing going against those programs are historical losing records.)

I just don't think that him being at Minnesota was the problem. Minnesota isn't inherently unable to win in the Big 10. Northwestern is, and Barnett was able to pull it off. Illinois was worse off than Minnesota, and Zook may have pulled it off--(we'll see if he can sustain it.)

Minnesota is a big school in a cool city with weather that is no worse than in Madison, Ann Arbor, or East Lansing. They have easier admission standards than Northwestern, Michigan, and Illinois. I don't know how the athletic facilities compare, etc., but he shouldn't have had trouble recruiting kids there compared to Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, etc. if he was that great of a coach. He just flat out didn't make them that much more competitive, IMO.

by **Stallion** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:01 pm

You are forgetting the death knell of Minnesota Football-the whole state produced 17 Division 1A prospects in 2007. Not a Football state.

by **Hoop Fan** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:04 pm

totally disagree. Minnesota is a very difficult situation in the Big 10. As much as you might think Minneapolis is a cool city, recruits don't think so. Illinois is ton easier place to recruit to than Minny. Chicago, Indianapolis, St. Louis kids all give Illinois a good look naturally. Minny is a total afterthought in the Big 10, an outpost basically. They are too far from any of the talent rich areas and too cold among other things. East Lansing is in the back yard of Detroit, and not far from Chicago, Fort Wayne and Cleveland. Not even close to the situation Minnesota faces.

by **Stallion** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:05 pm

I predict that if hired there will be an obnoxious little [deleted] posting as FireCoker before the end of his second year.

by **SMUstang** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:17 pm

If Stallion and Hoop Fan are against him so vehemently he must have something on the ball. Hire him!!!!

by **huskerpony** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:18 pm

Stallion wrote:You are forgetting the death knell of Minnesota Football-the whole state produced 17 Division 1A prospects in 2007. Not a Football state.

Agreed. But neither is Iowa or Illinois. Iowa used to be a powerhouse, and Northwestern and Illinois have both made Rose Bowl runs.

The difference between Mason and Mangino at KU is that Mangino has the ability to develop talent and motivate his players. Half of the KU players went unrecruited by anyone else. This guy can obviously teach.

Plus, when Mason was at KU, he constantly got out-recruited by K-State. I've been to both towns, and KU should clearly have the advantage. I can't imagine anyone wanting to go to school in Manhattan, KS! (Although I also can't imagine why someone would go to College Station over Austin, so I am obviously biased to some extent!)

by **Hoop Fan** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:51 pm

Illinois produces alot of D-1 football players and athletes. Plus St. Louis is 3 hours away from Champaign and Indy two hours away. Not to mention towns like Peoria, Decatur, Joliet, Rockford also produce players. Go 3 hours north of Minneapolis and all you find is a bunch of walleye fish and geese. Go west, and you've got, well nothing. South, you get some cornfed Iowa boys, but not many. Iowa has always pulled students and athletes from Chicago much better than Minny by far.

by **J.T.supporta** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:44 pm

you cant put them in the same boat as coker because GB and TB have never won or been to a national championship game...

but all 3 have run a program in the ground however

by **Hoop Fan** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:51 pm

J.T.supporta wrote:you cant put them in the same boat as coker because GB and TB have never won or been to a national championship game...

but all 3 have run a program in the ground however

and Coker has never built a program. GB has. And he didnt exactly run CU down.

Coker didn't take Miami anyplace they didnt already know how to go and had been. Davis got them back on the track and Coker drove the bus for a few years before he crashed and burned. Our bus is in real bad shape, we need more than a bus driver.

You cannot put Coker in same category as

You cannot put Coker in same category as

Re: You cannot put Coker in same category as

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