UAB head coach Mike Davis on SMU

[Stallion]

There another possibilty-on the day he was hired did he have the administrative ability to recruit the the type of JUCO PG all you guys are complaining about or was he hamstrung by university policies that limited the type of JUCOs he could sign. Those issues have reportedly been dealt with although further claification would be helpful. Again, shouldn't those issues have been resolved before you hire Big Name Head Coach? Doherty gets 5 full years to turn things around.

[Hoop Fan]

Doh absolutely gets 5 years. Although this freshman class does not appear to be a special one on the floor, or even an above average one, even by SMU standards. You gotta remember there are what 4 prep school guys in this class. They should be having more impact than they are if this is going to be the core of a future conference and ncaa tournament contender. thats my opinion. saying this class is anything but a flier is wishful thinking based on the evidence at this point. And yes, I am viewing it based on the appropriate "freshmen curve".

[mathman]

Doh absolutely gets 5 years. Although this freshman class does not appear to be a special one on the floor, or even an above average one, even by SMU standards. You gotta remember there are what 4 prep school guys in this class. They should be having more impact than they are if this is going to be the core of a future conference and ncaa tournament contender. thats my opinion. saying this class is anything but a flier is wishful thinking based on the evidence at this point. And yes, I am viewing it based on the appropriate "freshmen curve".

That is simply not true. Period. But we have argued this point before. Our opinions differ.

[Hoop Fan]

Doh absolutely gets 5 years. Although this freshman class does not appear to be a special one on the floor, or even an above average one, even by SMU standards. You gotta remember there are what 4 prep school guys in this class. They should be having more impact than they are if this is going to be the core of a future conference and ncaa tournament contender. thats my opinion. saying this class is anything but a flier is wishful thinking based on the evidence at this point. And yes, I am viewing it based on the appropriate "freshmen curve".

That is simply not true. Period. But we have argued this point before. Our opinions differ.

Period? really? So you are on record that this class will lead us to an ncaa appearance in its time here? I know i am a lightning rod for you on this issue, but i sure don't mind being more in line with the opinions posted by Xtc and LAMustang and others on this subject. You might have a crystal ball and this class might lead us to good things, but its anything but obvious that will be the case.

[mathman]

Doh absolutely gets 5 years. Although this freshman class does not appear to be a special one on the floor, or even an above average one, even by SMU standards. You gotta remember there are what 4 prep school guys in this class. They should be having more impact than they are if this is going to be the core of a future conference and ncaa tournament contender. thats my opinion. saying this class is anything but a flier is wishful thinking based on the evidence at this point. And yes, I am viewing it based on the appropriate "freshmen curve".

That is simply not true. Period. But we have argued this point before. Our opinions differ.

Period? really? So you are on record that this class will lead us to an ncaa appearance in its time here? I know i am a lightning rod for you on this issue, but i sure don't mind being more in line with the opinions posted by Xtc and LAMustang and others on this subject. You might have a crystal ball and this class might lead us to good things, but its anything but obvious that will be the case.

Hoop, read the last sentence. I said our opinions differ. No crystal ball. But I have seen improvement in most of them just like a lot of others on this board have said. I don't doubt that you agree with XTC and LAMustang. I know they share your opinion. I just happen to disagree with you on this. I agree with you on a lot of other things. Just not this.

[LA_Mustang]

But I have seen improvement in most of them just like a lot of others on this board have said.

Again, where exactly are you seeing this improvement? (insert freshman) is showing the ability to handle the ball under pressure? (insert freshman) is showing the ability to get to the hole and finish? (insert freshman) is showing the ability to lockdown on the other teams best offensive player? Can you please give specific examples? Or are you just assuming improvement because these are seven guys recruited by Doherty?

[MustangIcon]

But I have seen improvement in most of them just like a lot of others on this board have said.

Again, where exactly are you seeing this improvement? (insert freshman) is showing the ability to handle the ball under pressure? (insert freshman) is showing the ability to get to the hole and finish? (insert freshman) is showing the ability to lockdown on the other teams best offensive player? Can you please give specific examples? Or are you just assuming improvement because these are seven guys recruited by Doherty?

Ryan Harp could fit the hypothetical player you have just described. His improvement this season has been very noticeable in my opinion. He went from being a disaster with the ball to being a very sound ball handler. He does a very good job in man defense often locking down the opposition’s top scorer. He has shown the ability to penetrate and dribble with a purpose rather than patting on the ball just to be dribbling as I have grown so accustomed to seeing in basketball these days. The only area in which he seems to be especially weak is his shot, which to me is encouraging considering most seem to think he can really shoot it and has just had difficulty finding his stroke at the next level. I am encouraged by his play.

Malone is one who has regressed in my opinion. He just seems lost.

[Hoop Fan]

Icon, with all due respect, I think you are making LA's case for him. I too notice improvement in Harp, but as you say the starting point was a "disaster". I think thats fair to say. he looks serviceable out there lately and not unlike a typical level SMU recruit. Am I supposed to be jumping up and down about that? Think Stephen Woods, QRoss, Damon, BHop, and other guys who got minutes as freshman. They were way ahead of where Harp is and his athleticsm is limited, ok but limited. Harp is the leader of this class outside of Papa? Really? I am even a bit disappointed right now in Papa around the glass. He doesnt have explosive jumping ability. Even my kid turned to me the other night and said, dad, Papa can't jump. or doesnt jump, one or the other. For a guy his size and strength, he is getting turned away from the basket alot.

[MustangIcon]

Doh absolutely gets 5 years. Although this freshman class does not appear to be a special one on the floor, or even an above average one, even by SMU standards. You gotta remember there are what 4 prep school guys in this class. They should be having more impact than they are if this is going to be the core of a future conference and ncaa tournament contender. thats my opinion. saying this class is anything but a flier is wishful thinking based on the evidence at this point. And yes, I am viewing it based on the appropriate "freshmen curve".

I am not sure how much this says (not much considering our poor results over the last 7 years) but this class to me is the best since the '01 class. If that is in fact true, or even defenseable, then I think we must conclude it is above average and not a "flier".

The '01-'02 team, led by Damon Han__k and Q Ross, saw 3 freshman get significant playing time, compared to the 4 that do for us this season, and the numbers between these classes are similar:

P. Simpson- 25 min, 8 ppg, 7 rpg, 46% fg
J. Isham- 21 min, 6ppg, 3 rpg, 1 apg, 45% fg
E. Castro- 16 min, 6ppg, 4 rpg, 61% fg

P. Dia- 24 min, 10 ppg, 7 rpg, 43% fg
M. Walker- 26 min, 6 ppg, 2 rpg, 2 apg, 32% fg
R. Harp- 25 min, 5 ppg, 3 rpg, 2 apg, 35% fg
A. Malone- 18 min, 8 ppg, 3 rpg, 37% fg

Of course numbers do not make or mean everything, but just wanted to give some info for people to consider.

[MustangIcon]

Icon, with all do respect, I think you are making LA's case for him. I too notice improvement in Harp, but as you say the starting point was a "disaster". I think thats fair to say. he looks serviceable out there lately and not unlike a typical level SMU recruit. Am I supposed to be jumping up and down about that? Think Stephen Woods, QRoss, Damon, BHop, and other guys who got minutes as freshman. They were way ahead of where Harp is and his athleticsm is limited, ok but limited. Harp is the leader of this class outside of Papa? Really? I am even a bit disappointed right now in Papa around the glass. He doesnt have explosive jumping ability. Even my kid turned to me the other night and said, dad, Papa can't jump. or doesnt jump, one or the other. For a guy his size and strength, he is getting turned away from the basket alot.

And he certainly was a disaster to start- we can all agree on that. But Bobby Knight, Skip Prosper, Matt Doherty, and the Stanford coach (forget his name) all wanted that disaster bad enough to offer him a full ride. That would make him more highly recruited (in terms of quality offers)than any player, save for Hopkins, that we have had at SMU in 8-9 years right?

Woods, Ross, Damon, Willie D, and J-Lord all were freshman at SMU over a decade ago. A time where our reputation/image was MUCH different than it is now.

Papa I question his effort and desire sometimes. I am not so sure it is a lack of ability as it is a lack of wanting it bad enough, which would be a shame.

[Hoop Fan]

are you sure that Trent Johnson from Stanford offered Harp a scholarship? Wake Forest? can that be confirmed? Not sent him a letter, offered him a ship. Not sure it makes any difference once he's here, but it is interesting. Tech offering, well, Bobby made alot of strange offers in his time in Lubbock. And he withdrew some too.

[MustangIcon]

are you sure that Trent Johnson from Stanford offered Harp a scholarship? Wake Forest? can that be confirmed? Not sent him a letter, offered him a ship. Not sure it makes any difference once he's here, but it is interesting. Tech offering, well, Bobby made alot of strange offers in his time in Lubbock. And he withdrew some too.

I could be wrong, but I almost certain of the Stanford and Tech offers plus a couple other also-ran schools- TCU and Northwestern for sure.

Also wasn't he the number 14 or 15 player in the state supposedly? What was Roberson? 10ish?

EDIT** I agree sort of irrelivant now. Merely making the point that to me there is reason to be patient and have optimisim. If kid can find his shot and become the 3 point threat we all expected, he will have a very, very good career at SMU I think.**

[Hoop Fan]

are you sure that Trent Johnson from Stanford offered Harp a scholarship? Wake Forest? can that be confirmed? Not sent him a letter, offered him a ship. Not sure it makes any difference once he's here, but it is interesting. Tech offering, well, Bobby made alot of strange offers in his time in Lubbock. And he withdrew some too.

I could be wrong, but I almost certain of the Stanford and Tech offers plus a couple other also-ran schools- TCU and Northwestern for sure.

Also wasn't he the number 14 or 15 player in the state supposedly? What was Roberson? 10ish?

I honestly dont remember his rating, and I know its a different class one year later, but Kimball has three guys right now that are more college ready. I mean today. And they lost to a relatively average Lincoln team in the playoffs last night. hard for me to believe he was a legit top 15 guy. Now, his dad is a high school coach, and I think that coaches' kids really get a boost in the rankings. I don't know if its benefit of the doubt from scouts who know their dads, or better fundamentals earlier or what, but you see alot of coaches' kids with inflated rankings if you ask me.

[LA_Mustang]

Icon, thanks. I've asked that question several times and you're the first to give a legit answer. Yes, Harp has shown flashes of improvement, but as HoopFan said, is it really at the level we need? Freshmen who go from bad to average will get this program nowhere. Now if we had seen the same type of improvement from Dia, we may have something, but he has regressed from his Nov/Dec level...and as you mentioned, so has Malone.

btw, I wasn'y aware that Harp was offered by Stanford either. I knew Tech had offered.

[LA_Mustang]

Harp was the #14 ranked player in Texas. As my friend mentioned during the SMU/UAB game, Harp looks like the second coming of Elsey, and I have to agree.