Is USC the new UT?

[Insane_Pony_Posse]

"He will never consider the origin of pro athletes, because he isn't interested in hearing anything except that SMU can win with all squeaky clean players with strong academics"

No thats not what he is saying at all.
He may be saying you can win without all the
thugs UT uses and does not graduate. Reality
shows many other schools have successful football
programs with better graduation rates and not the
the disgraceful police blotter as those thugs in Austin .

[perunapower]

There are many athletes that come from poorer neighborhoods, but to say it's primarily from poor neighborhoods is to denote the relationship is that a healthy majority are from poorer neighborhoods. Affluent professional athletes are not the norm, but they certainly aren't exceptions. You have Tom Brady, Michael Irvin, Jason Witten, Matt Leinart, etc. How many exceptions can you have until they aren't exceptions anymore?

In fact, it would seem as though your argument would suggest more than anything that more affluent individuals are dominating athletics.

Dominating how? Dominating in terms of state championships in Texas, yes. That's fairly obvious with the state championships won lately. Dominating in terms of percentages in professional sports, no. I've made it crystal clear that I don't believe that athletes in professional sports make up the majority in their leagues.

If this were the case, then it should logically follow that there would be an equal number of persons from all economic backgrounds pursuing athletics. If this were the case, then you would expect sports to represent the demographics of America.

Now you're drawing conclusions that are illogical. Many factors come into play when an athlete chooses to pursue professional sports, not just economics.

Lastly, I most certainly never took a "neo-Marxist" approach in this argument. Never have even come close to arguing that "all individuals are equal in all attributes". You may have conceived that I argued this point, but I never did. They aren't equal. I know they aren't equal. Thus, I wouldn't argue they are equal. You keep making indirect conceptions on my opinions and trying to twist them into something that is blatantly wrong, and more importantly, not what I'm arguing. That is actually how we got on the point of professional sports.

[Samurai Stang]

Another reminder of your position.

Why continue this argument? He will never consider the origin of pro athletes, because he isn't interested in hearing anything except that SMU can win with all squeaky clean players with strong academics.

I'm sure he also thought Bennett was a nice guy, that we should have had finding a coach "with class" as our #1 priority in the coaching search, and believed that we'd go to a bowl game at the beginning of every year since Copeland was hired.

Your words are wise. While I always enjoy a discussion, any words I speak at this point will be met by deaf ears. I stand by my position, and the statistics provided by Stallion demonstrate that position being correct. I must, however, abandon this thread. While my goal has ever been to lead others towards wisdom, at this point I believe that certain individuals have hardened their minds to the point where they are no longer receptive to what has been made evident.

Affluent professional athletes are not the norm, but they certainly aren't exceptions. You have Tom Brady, Michael Irvin, Jason Witten, Matt Leinart, etc. How many exceptions can you have until they aren't exceptions anymore?

Oh, and Irvin is a bad example of an individual that grew up in a privileged household. His father was a bricklayer. He was actually so poor that he ate his Cornflakes with water.

[SMUer]

Totals based on 2006 NFL Kickoff Weekend rosters. 1,383 high schools in 47 are represented. Dillard (Fort Lauderdale, Fla.), Dorsey (Los Angeles, Calif.), Ely (Pompano Beach, Fla.), Long Beach Poly (Long Beach, Calif.), and Kahuku (Kahuku, HI) top the list of schools with the most 2006 NFL players (with five each).

-Dillard Magnet (Fort Lauderdale, Fla.) 88.7% Af-Am 87 weighted overall 2006-2007 test average compared to other schools in Florida (100 being best)
-Dorsey (Los Angeles, Calif.) 55.9% Af-Am 1st in California Academic Performance Index
-Ely (Pompano Beach, Fla.) 83.6% Af-Am 87 weighted overall 2006-2007 test average compared to other schools in Florida (100 being best)
-Long Beach Poly (Long Beach, Calif.) 28.9% Af-Am 7th in California Academic Performance Index
-Kahuku (Kahuku, Hawaii) Blue Ribbon School

I wouldn't exactly kill for the opportunity to send my daughter to any of these schools but one is a blue ribbon school and they do happen to be some of the best schools academically in their area, especially in the immediate area.

Good academic/high income schools have better resources, hire better coaches and offer greater exposure for athletes. Whether it means moving across the city/state (if they have money), parents taking a second job or apartment(if they don't), or if it means moving in with grandma or coach, talented athletes usually make their way to the best schools they can get to (even if that motivation isn't wholly academically derived). Go to any city, find out the best pubic and private schools and its a pretty good bet you are also pointing out the better sports teams in the area.

[perunapower]

Oh, and Micheal Irvin is a bad example of an individual that grew up in a privileged household. His father was a bricklayer. He was actually so poor that he ate his Cornflakes with water.

My apologies. I saw that he attended a high-touted St. Thomas Aquinas High School in Ft. Lauderdale. I made the deduction that he had to be moderately well-off if he attended such a renown Florida high school. Not an unusual deduction since the tuition for one school year at St. Thomas Aquinas is $6,000-8,000, which doesn't include fees, uniform, etc.

[Peruna_Ate_My_Rolex]

There are many athletes that come from poorer neighborhoods, but to say it's primarily from poor neighborhoods is to denote the relationship is that a healthy majority are from poorer neighborhoods. Affluent professional athletes are not the norm, but they certainly aren't exceptions. You have Tom Brady, Michael Irvin, Jason Witten, Matt Leinart, etc. How many exceptions can you have until they aren't exceptions anymore?

How can anyone take you seriously when you say that Michael Irvin grew up in a affluent household? Considering he grew up with 16 other siblings and his parents weren't very rich, I think it's safe to say that he didn't grow up in an "affluent" household. In fact, the main reason he left Miami a year early was because he wanted to support his family, which had lost his father during his Sr. year of HS. Might also want to be aware that Jason Witten came from a small town in Northeastern Tennessee named Elizabethton. Population is roughly 14k. Odds are that he wasn't "affluent" either. You could have at least looked on wikipedia. geez.

[SMUer]

Odds are that he wasn't "affluent" either. You could have at least looked on wikipedia. geez.

It is the 8th best HS to graduate from in the state of KY...
http://www.etown.k12.ky.us/Schools/ehs.htm

[Peruna_Ate_My_Rolex]

Odds are that he wasn't "affluent" either. You could have at least looked on wikipedia. geez.

It is the the 8th best HS to graduate from in the state of TN...
http://www.etown.k12.ky.us/Schools/ehs.htm

Um...that school is in Kentucky, buddy.

[SMUer]

Odds are that he wasn't "affluent" either. You could have at least looked on wikipedia. geez.

It is the the 8th best HS to graduate from in the state of TN...
http://www.etown.k12.ky.us/Schools/ehs.htm

Um...that school is in Kentucky, buddy.

Opps...okay....Kentucky....same point. He didn't graduate with a bunch of coal miner children.

[Peruna_Ate_My_Rolex]

Odds are that he wasn't "affluent" either. You could have at least looked on wikipedia. geez.

It is the the 8th best HS to graduate from in the state of TN...
http://www.etown.k12.ky.us/Schools/ehs.htm

Um...that school is in Kentucky, buddy.

Opps...okay....Kentucky....same point.

Ok...so what is your point?

[SMUer]

Oh I see, I confused ElizabethTOWN, KY with ElizabethTON, TN...

Still, Elizabethton HS is ranked 76th in the state academically and I guess my point is that although Elizabethton certainly isn't the HP of Tennessee, Witten didn't graduate with coal miner sons or anything like that. It's a 94.3% caucasian school with a 99% proficiency on the state's science test. Pretty safe bet that Witten wasn't learning in a low income academic hell hole.

[perunapower]

There are many athletes that come from poorer neighborhoods, but to say it's primarily from poor neighborhoods is to denote the relationship is that a healthy majority are from poorer neighborhoods. Affluent professional athletes are not the norm, but they certainly aren't exceptions. You have Tom Brady, Michael Irvin, Jason Witten, Matt Leinart, etc. How many exceptions can you have until they aren't exceptions anymore?

How can anyone take you seriously when you say that Michael Irvin grew up in a affluent household? Considering he grew up with 16 other siblings and his parents weren't very rich, I think it's safe to say that he didn't grow up in an "affluent" household. In fact, the main reason he left Miami a year early was because he wanted to support his family, which had lost his father during his Sr. year of HS. Might also want to be aware that Jason Witten came from a small town in Northeastern Tennessee named Elizabethton. Population is roughly 14k. Odds are that he wasn't "affluent" either. You could have at least looked on wikipedia. geez.

I apologized for Michael Irvin, see above post. Jason Witten is from Elizabethton, TN which is a "suburb", if you can call it that, of Johnson City, which is on the Forbes list for Best Small Place for Business and Careers. Elizabethton isn't a poor little Appalachian town, if that's what you're thinking. I gave him as an example of a middle class, though rural, successful football player.

I did use Wikipedia. I should have followed up more on Michael Irvin to be safe, but I didn't and I made a mistake.

Here's some pictures of Elizabethton, TN. Not too bad for 14,000 people, if you ask me.

http://www.elizabethtontennessee.com/