Nice Espn Article

[Garret]

Please....I was looking at players from Hawaii's offense.

Nice way to *try* to spin your way out of something when you KNOW that you are wrong. Kind of like how you completely failed to mention that you were way off on Howard's time. However, let us look at what you actually said.

by the way the only pro besides Ashley Lelie that I can find from the last 4 teams is Samson Satele?

No mention of offense here...which is why I provided you with the information. But even if we go with your spin, let us look at what you said in your latest post.

On offense, the only player that was taken and kept was Samson Satele

Reagan Mauia: drafted in 2006 by the Dolphins. Was their starting FB all season in 2007. Is STILL on the team. So, you are factually wrong again...but I'm sure that you will try to spin this too. Here is the link from NFL.com:

http://www.nfl.com/players/reaganmauia/profile?id=MAU280858

I gave you his name and his team and you STILL failed to find this information? I guess your only spin to claim that you are correct now is that a FB is not an offensive player.

Also, your claim that no other player on JJ's last 4 teams was a pro is even further off. I even gave you the names of the LT and RT from 2006 that were on NFL rosters all of 2007. Here are their NFL.com links.

Tala Esera, Colts:
http://www.nfl.com/players/talaesera/profile?id=ESE563610

Dane Uperesa, Bengals:
http://www.nfl.com/players/daneuperesa/profile?id=UPE404791

I guess your spin here is that you do not consider NFL players on a team's roster last season and STILL on NFL rosters now a "pro". Remember, you said offense and not skill positions. If you want to talk about skill positions, Colt completed his eligibility and was drafted by the Redskins. Bess will stick with the Dolphins. Grice-Mullins and Rivers have their shots with the Texans and Titans, but they aren't locks like Bess.

You know, if you can never admit you are wrong and just want to spin things or change the subject when you realize you are wrong, there is no point in my clogging up this board by responding to you. I will give you the final word in this, so give all the spin you wish and I will NOT respond.

P.S. Nacho, you are correct that JJ doesn't consider his offense the run-and-shoot anymore. He just refers to it as "what we do".

[mrydel]

P.S. Nacho, you are correct that JJ doesn't consider his offense the run-and-shoot anymore. He just refers to it as "what we do".

Maybe we can get him to change it to TWSS.

[Nacho]

I know that I am right or I wouldn't post it. But thanks anyway.

[Nacho]

I wonder if we will see any R&S out of A&M now that Rossley is their QB coach. They say they will run a pro-style O but my goodness they might throw in 4 wides and do a little Pats O (R&S) every now and then.

[Heisman7Life]

Run and Shoot record in the playoffs: 3-11.


Starts by the players you mentioned:

Regan: 9 games. He started after Ronnie Brown went down. FACT.
How many games have those lineman started? I'm sure Sam Houston State, W. Texas A&M and a variety of other D-IAA schools have people on rosters.


Who wrote the article on ARMChairQB?


Have you guys even looked at playbooks from the 50's to 70's? Again the R & S is a good package. Also ask Rich Rodriguez and late Randy Walker what there offensice gameplans were influenced by. Remember it was Randy Walker who brung what is commonly known as the spread to college. Northwestern 54, Michigan 51. Read some of the articles by Randy Walker from the AFCA. It wasn't June Jones that he got the offense from. Urban Meyer got it from Rich and Randy...who are considered the innovators of the spread.


Actually I didn't take the time to look up players who have no discernible effect on their teams wins and losses. Again besides Death, none of you have made any sort of argument about X's and O's. The PATS offense isn't the run and shoot. Jeez.

[Nacho]

Parts of it are. All offenses are a conglomertion of everything. Some are just more on one than the other. Whe the Pats line up in 4 wides it is not the wishbone.

[Nacho]

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2007/ ... fense.html

X&Os for ya

[mrydel]

I hope our OL will allow those lines to be that long on those routes.

[Nacho]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2208/241 ... ab682c.jpg

Name the coverage.

[RGV Pony]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2208/2418898376_f118ab682c.jpg

Name the coverage.

looks like a homecoming crowd

[Heisman7Life]

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2007/12/add-little-hawaii-to-your-offense.html

X&Os for ya

Ahh I actually know the guy who runs that site. Want me to upload some jpg from a pdf from the 60's? The switch route has been run since Sid Gillman. Also the "He's even I'm leaving he's staying I'm going" was originally made by Glen Ellison. Again, the switch has been there since Gillman. It's a genius concept but give credit to who ORIGINALLY made it. It's one of the reason old time football coaches get mad at the "Walsh West Coast Offense" everyone accepts that Walsh took what Paul Brown did and refined it. Also Air Coryell's offense was/is the original west coast offense. Made by......Gillman! Does it make Walsh any less of a genius? No. Also can you blow up that jpg please......hold on let me try.

A much harder coach to ignore is Sid Gillman, the grandfather of the modern passing game, who disliked the run-and-shoot because he thought tight ends who could function both as blockers and as receivers were integral to any great passing attack. "I'm not a run-and-shoot guy," Gillman told the Los Angeles Times in 1990. "I just feel that you can't play without a tight end. At times, when the situation presents itself, I would use four wide receivers and take out the tight end, but certainly not on a regular basis."

Of course we all know that Sid Gillman sucked.

Here's the link:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5913640?print=true

[Heisman7Life]

Show me the perfect system, and everyone will race to use it. Georgia had far surperior talent...case closed.

I guess Rice has far superior talent also. How many NFL D-Lineman were on the field today?

[ozfan]

Run and Shoot record in the playoffs: 3-11.


Starts by the players you mentioned:

Regan: 9 games. He started after Ronnie Brown went down. FACT.
How many games have those lineman started? I'm sure Sam Houston State, W. Texas A&M and a variety of other D-IAA schools have people on rosters.


Who wrote the article on ARMChairQB?


Have you guys even looked at playbooks from the 50's to 70's? Again the R & S is a good package. Also ask Rich Rodriguez and late Randy Walker what there offensice gameplans were influenced by. Remember it was Randy Walker who brung what is commonly known as the spread to college. Northwestern 54, Michigan 51. Read some of the articles by Randy Walker from the AFCA. It wasn't June Jones that he got the offense from. Urban Meyer got it from Rich and Randy...who are considered the innovators of the spread.


Actually I didn't take the time to look up players who have no discernible effect on their teams wins and losses. Again besides Death, none of you have made any sort of argument about X's and O's. The PATS offense isn't the run and shoot. Jeez.

As I am quite a bit older than you I not only saw the playbook of the 50's
I saw the SMU games in the 40's and 50's. Talk history this is take from Wikipidia about Rusty Russell the SMU head coach from 50- 52, he was the backfield coach before that.
"Using a complex passing attack, unheard of at the time, Russell is considered one of the forerunners of the spread offense.[2]"

Nothing is new in football most things have been tried at one time or another. Some coaches find something they like and will not change others are always looking for something different most are good football
historians.