Coaching vs recruiting

[PK]

Bennett would have won at least 5 games this year.

That is a pretty bold statement considering our ... his defensive players. And we can only guess what his recruiting class would have looked like. So what makes you think that?

[HFvictory]

Bennett would have won at least 5 games this year.

That is a pretty bold statement considering our ... his defensive players. And we can only guess what his recruiting class would have looked like. So what makes you think that?

Not so bold, but think the offense under Willis would have been better (definitely less turnovers) and scored as many points as this years team, but the D would have been much better.

So fewer turnovers
Equal points on offense
Less points given up

4 more wins at least.

[originaloverthehilltop1]

and five wins after six years in office won't cut it. and it won't for jj either.

[HFvictory]

and five wins after six years in office won't cut it. and it won't for jj either.

We can play a lot of "what-ifs", etc. and honestly felt SMU hang on to Bennett too long, but what if JJ does not succeed? How willing would the administrators, etc be to making any further high-dollar investments in the program?

Is this it? Succeed or drop down?

Just asking as I do not have an answer and my guess is that instead of dropping down they would take a gamble on a relatively unknown and hope for the best.

Lets hope JJ makes the turn soon and the question becomes moot, but just some food for thought. Not a pretty start to the relationship.

[PK]

Bennett would have won at least 5 games this year.

That is a pretty bold statement considering our ... his defensive players. And we can only guess what his recruiting class would have looked like. So what makes you think that?

Not so bold, but think the offense under Willis would have been better (definitely less turnovers) and scored as many points as this years team, but the D would have been much better.

So fewer turnovers
Equal points on offense
Less points given up

4 more wins at least.

I have to disagree.

1. I don't think PB's OL coach could have done as good a job with this young O-Line as McKnight has done...JW would have been killed.
2. PB's offense last year (not sure if the OC really had anything to do with it) wasn't worth much (check the old threads and see what everyone thought of it)...which wouldn't bode well for this year given the loss of so many starters from last year. If JW had not been able to run for his life so well, our losses last year would have been much worse.
3. Based upon PB's diminishing returns on recruiting, I don't think there would have been many freshmen that would have been able to contribute much to a diminished group of starters.

JJ could have used JW at QB this year and next, but it would have put his installation of his run and shoot system back two years because JW does not fit the mold of the QB JJ needs for his system. JW runs at the first sign of trouble instead of sitting in the pocket and checking down through his receivers. Hey, JW is good at what he does, but it doesn't fit the long term goals of the run and shoot system JJ runs...and in case you haven't noticed, when it is properly executed it is a scoring explosion of an offense.

[Dwan]

There is a culture of losing at SMU and June is trying to change that. He moved Willis to 4th string and then moved him to WR. There is no question that this team would win more games with Willis at QB this season. Jones has suspended or benched our best players this year. He has played and started players he recruited who had no other division one offers. The message is clear. He is starting from scratch with players who buy into his system and play by his rules. That is the only way to change the culture of losing....burn it down and build it back up

[HFvictory]

There is a culture of losing at SMU and June is trying to change that. He moved Willis to 4th string and then moved him to WR. There is no question that this team would win more games with Willis at QB this season. Jones has suspended or benched our best players this year. He has played and started players he recruited who had no other division one offers. The message is clear. He is starting from scratch with players who buy into his system and play by his rules. That is the only way to change the culture of losing....burn it down and build it back up

Scorched earth usually takes longer to recover than proper care and fertilizing. The end result may be more rewarding or it may be just a bunch of burnt ashes, the problem is how patient will you be?

Recruiting not necessarily looking like it will turn things around, especially when over half the class so far are OL/DL and the bulk of the bunch are under 260lbs.

Culture or not, you need players to turn it around, not just right thinking.

And BTW, I don't buy the "culture of losing" arguement anyway. If you think kids came to SMU under Bennett to continue the losing ways then you might as well just hang it up anyway. Thats just an attempt to justify the current state of affairs rather than an objective view of the reality of the situation. Culture of losing doesn't exist among athletes, period. Fans, now that is a differnet story. Maybe he should burn the fans and rebuild that area from scratch.

[PK]

There is a culture of losing at SMU and June is trying to change that. He moved Willis to 4th string and then moved him to WR. There is no question that this team would win more games with Willis at QB this season. Jones has suspended or benched our best players this year. He has played and started players he recruited who had no other division one offers. The message is clear. He is starting from scratch with players who buy into his system and play by his rules. That is the only way to change the culture of losing....burn it down and build it back up

Scorched earth usually takes longer to recover than proper care and fertilizing. The end result may be more rewarding or it may be just a bunch of burnt ashes, the problem is how patient will you be?

Recruiting not necessarily looking like it will turn things around, especially when over half the class so far are OL/DL and the bulk of the bunch are under 260lbs.

Culture or not, you need players to turn it around, not just right thinking.

And BTW, I don't buy the "culture of losing" arguement anyway. If you think kids came to SMU under Bennett to continue the losing ways then you might as well just hang it up anyway. Thats just an attempt to justify the current state of affairs rather than an objective view of the reality of the situation. Culture of losing doesn't exist among athletes, period. Fans, now that is a differnet story. Maybe he should burn the fans and rebuild that area from scratch.

I understand what you are saying, but the reallity of it all is that most, not all, of the players recruited by Bennett came to SMU because it was the only offer they got that wasn't a Sunbelt offer. Ask Stallion...he will tell you what kind of recruits Bennett was getting the last few years...and it ain't pretty.

[Dwan]

also, there is a difference between recruiting a player and saying "we are going to turn this around" and teaching him how to do it.

Let me ask you this. Why did Jones make Willis 3rd string and then move him to WR? Why has he suspended our best WRs? Why is he playing 17 true Freshman?

There are two certainties here....1)Willis is without a doubt the best QB on the roster and 2)He is a punk who did whatever the hell he wanted to on and off the field cause he thought he was the man. Jones told him what he could do with that attitude. Feels like a change of the way things work to me

[HFvictory]

I understand what you are saying, but the reallity of it all is that most, not all, of the players recruited by Bennett came to SMU because it was the only offer they got that wasn't a Sunbelt offer. Ask Stallion...he will tell you what kind of recruits Bennett was getting the last few years...and it ain't pretty.

And there it is in black & white. The reality is it is about recruiting, recruiting, recruiting.

You have to recruit. I am not talking about how many stars the kids have, but rather do the evaluations, shake the trees all over the state, find the hidden gems.

Unlike at HI, SMU has no built in recruiting base and neither does TCU, etc. You don't automatically get 6 or 8 somoans or polynesians who are focusing on playing for your program each year.

JJ needs to get to the RGV, to the deepest parts of east Texas, etc and find those kids being overlooked, but have tremendous talent.

There were a few years that Bennett was very succesful at getting those types of players and many still paying off.

Todd Dodge is the prime example of what not to do. He went after the so-called late bloomers without doing the evaluations on the kids. Kids who may have had a big season and noone else wanted, but usually for good reasons. Unfortunately I see a lot of the same happening now under JJ.

[HFvictory]

also, there is a difference between recruiting a player and saying "we are going to turn this around" and teaching him how to do it.

Let me ask you this. Why did Jones make Willis 3rd string and then move him to WR? Why has he suspended our best WRs? Why is he playing 17 true Freshman?

There are two certainties here....1)Willis is without a doubt the best QB on the roster and 2)He is a punk who did whatever the hell he wanted to on and off the field cause he thought he was the man. Jones told him what he could do with that attitude. Feels like a change of the way things work to me

Answer me this, would a successful program be doing the same things?

[Dwan]

You are right that recruiting is huge. But in this day in age everybody gets hot and bothered about stars.....at SMU, we are not in that game. We need to rely on a staff that can evaluate talent and we have that in Jones. Look at the amount of players this year who he offered and they committed who have had great senior years and now have numerous offers


I don't know what is more [deleted]....claiming that Hawaii....a chain of Islands 4,000 off the mainland has a recruiting base or that Phil Bennett was a qualified head coach.

[Dwan]

well....since you did not answer my question I assume you have no answer....but to answer your.....we are not a successful program now. So if you are saying that what Jones is doing would not work at USC or Flordia....well, that is on par with your "Bennett is a good head college football coach" argument and "Hawaii is a recruiting hot bed"

All three of these theories are best summed up by the Black Eyed Peas when they sang....."Lets get [deleted] in here."

[HFvictory]

I don't know what is more [deleted]....claiming that Hawaii....a chain of Islands 4,000 off the mainland has a recruiting base or that Phil Bennett was a qualified head coach.

Wow, so a chain of islands 4,000 miles off the mainland isn't considered a captured recruiting base? Please explain.

[HFvictory]

well....since you did not answer my question I assume you have no answer....but to answer your.....we are not a successful program now. So if you are saying that what Jones is doing would not work at USC or Flordia....well, that is on par with your "Bennett is a good head college football coach" argument and "Hawaii is a recruiting hot bed"

All three of these theories are best summed up by the Black Eyed Peas when they sang....."Lets get [deleted] in here."

Well, nevermind. Obviously wasting both of our time here.