Doh Evaluation

[Jumpshooter]

Does anybody think that Doh won't get it done at SMU? I really hope he does but don't see a lot that makes me think he will.

He has been great at the external/PR stuff but at the end of the day, that is smoke and mirrors. You need to back that up with wins.

As a gameday coach/teacher, I think he is average at best and he has whiffed a ton in recruiting. That first class of seven (not counting the Cam Spencer singing the spring before) has maybe two guys that can play and excel at this level and McCoy looks like a nice part.

All in all, 2.5 seasons in he is 27-40 and I don't see SMU heading to the NCAAs, barring a miraclce, anytime soon.

I don't want this to end up a [deleted] and moan thread but more of a civilized discussion on the state of the SMU basketball program, the job Doh has done thus far and what the future might hold for Pony hoops.

Thanks in advance for any and all replies.

[bagice]

I totally disagree, I absolutely think he will turn the program around. SMU basketball was at rock bottom and it will take a couple of more years to dig us out of that hole.

He has tried for some big time recruits, we haven't got many yet, but I think it will come and don't underestimate his PR work. He got us a million dollar scoreboard, got the Crum Center built and will get Moody renovated. All key pieces to getting better recruits in the future.

I think by the time McCoy is a senior, we will be close to dancing in March and the program will be set up to be successful for years to come.

We are still early into this season and I still think this team is going to come together and do some good things. Give Doherty his five years and then lets see where we are. I am happy with what he has done. We kept Dement all those years and only had 1 NIT first round loss to show for it.

[FriscoPMG]

I'm with you -- I really hope he gets it done, but I don't think it's gonna happen.

I've been saying this about Doh for a long time -- I think he's a great top assistant, but is not head coaching material. I would have no problem with him being a main recruiter who is on the road all the time selling the program and then strictly working on player development and basic skill work with the players in practice & workouts.

Of course the ego would have to be deflated a little bit, but if he was a top assistant at his beloved UNC or any other big program, then I have no doubt he would be great at his job.

But as a head coach at SMU, his teams have looked pretty clueless out there on the court and the in game adjustments are rarely present. Sometimes he just looks lost and frustrated on the sideline.

Again, I hope I'm wrong, but that's been my impression thus far...

[papawasamustang]

I'm with you -- I really hope he gets it done, but I don't think it's gonna happen.

I've been saying this about Doh for a long time -- I think he's a great top assistant, but is not head coaching material. I would have no problem with him being a main recruiter who is on the road all the time selling the program and then strictly working on player development and basic skill work with the players in practice & workouts.

Of course the ego would have to be deflated a little bit, but if he was a top assistant at his beloved UNC or any other big program, then I have no doubt he would be great at his job.

But as a head coach at SMU, his teams have looked pretty clueless out there on the court and the in game adjustments are rarely present. Sometimes he just looks lost and frustrated on the sideline.

Again, I hope I'm wrong, but that's been my impression thus far...

I don't want to come across the wrong way either.
I think we all agree that Robo is a great guy & we all like him.
There are just too many things that are obvious now that its just not going to work here.

[Billy Joe]

What things are obvious now that make you think Doh will not get it done? I believe the jury is still out on him. It starts and ends with recruiting. It is not Doh's fault SMU has aliented itself with the local basketball community for the mishandling of Tubbs. However, time heals wounds and the new basketball facility should help with recruiting. I believe Doh gets 2 more years to show progress or he is out of here. If SMU is really serious about being a top 25 team in all sports then a new coach will be brought in if progress is not made in the next few years.

[Stallion]

too early to draw final conclusion. I've only counted to 2 so far after his first quality recruiting class. Faye could still make this a pretty competitive team. I still think SMU's program will show solid but not spectacular improvement by the end of the year. The 2008 Class looks solid.

[1983 Cotton Bowl]

Obviously, success begins and ends with recruiting. I don't think we should underestimate how badly our extremely poor basketball "infastructure" has hurt recruiting. Frankly, considering that we've had an old stadium, no practice facilities, generally poor fan support, and an uninteresting conference affiliation for much of the past 13 years. . .not to mention zero "athletic friendly" majors, and its frankly remarkable that Dement was able to get some of the players he did. Throw in a dash of local high-school coach alienation with the Tubbs situation, and that is a recipe for a flat-on-its-back college basketball program.

We haven't seen the on-the-court results yet with Doh. But I think he has done a great job of developing the infastructure that will be needed to support a sucessful basketball program in the future. I agree that he was starting from the ground up with this project. Finally getting a pretty darn nice practice facility and upgrading Moody will pay dividends. Considering that we gave Dement 10 years, I'm willing to give Doh at least five.

[smupony]

What things are obvious now that make you think Doh will not get it done? I believe the jury is still out on him. It starts and ends with recruiting. It is not Doh's fault SMU has aliented itself with the local basketball community for the mishandling of Tubbs. However, time heals wounds and the new basketball facility should help with recruiting. I believe Doh gets 2 more years to show progress or he is out of here. If SMU is really serious about being a top 25 team in all sports then a new coach will be brought in if progress is not made in the next few years.

Jury is still out in my opinion. I do fear the offense we run, in game adjustments, and the lack of imagination. Too many schools like Northwestern (this yrs version) make up for poor talent by playing very smart and innovative basketball. I don't see that. I think it was Tulsa last year that ran such an impressive offensive set. I remember after the game thinking, "man I wish we ran stuff like that."

Doh is very good at eveything else, I question the mental side.

Hope he can prove it. I like him and wish we can get out of the infinitive rebuilding act.

[itsaputon]

Disclaimer: I am of the belief that Matt Doherty will be the man who puts SMU Basketball in a position for an NCAA Tourney berth every year. I believe he will put SMU in the NCAA Tourney by 2011-12 and be a consistent tournament team from then on.

With that said, I wonder how a man could:

Play high school ball for Bob McKillop,
Earn Academic All-ACC accolades and win a National Championship as a player under Dean Smith
Coach under Bob McKillop at Davidson and Roy Williams at Kansas
Lead Notre Dame to 22 wins and their best record in 10 years in his first season as a head coach
Lead a team to the #1 ranking and win National Coach of the Year in his second season as a head coach

and not have a pretty good grasp on the X's and O's of the game of basketball?

It would seem that a man who has spent most of his life since childhood,

1. Playing the game at a high level under several outstanding coaches, or 2. Being an assistant to two of the best coaches currently in college basketball, or
3.leading two esteemed programs to impressive years as a veritable rookie coach

has a fair chance at possessing a high basketball IQ.

No?

[mustangxc]

As Stallion said, I count to 2 from his first true recruiting class. SMU basketball was a mess after the transition phase from Dement to Tubbs plus the mishandling of the Tubbs situation. Give him at least 5 years to show progress. I think we are getting better. The results may not show yet because we have 1 junior (Williams) 1 forthcoming junior (Faye) and 1 senior (Bamba). I expect us to be slightly better than last year's team, next year to be better than this year and the following year expect us to be a posts-season team.

2006/07 throw away year (no time to recruit yielded Spencer) (had Pearson, Ofoegbu, Killen, Roberts, Fall)
2007/08 first rebuilding year (had Killen, Roberts, Fall and added some recruits)
2008/09 second rebuilding year (have Fall and added Williams, McCoy and Faye)
2009/10 third rebuilding year
2010/11 fourth year

Give him at least until the end of the 2010/11 season to properly evaluate results. I think he has us headed in the right direction and we definitely need the continuity. I do expect slow, steady improvement in our overall talent each year.

[Mustangsabu]

I think that Doh is doing ok, even if he has not worked a miracle yet. I think that our team plays decent defense, but needs to be able to use Fall and Dia more consistently (sometimes they are AWOL), and maybe that is motivational work that is required. McCoy is the best player I have seen play for SMU in quite some time, and there is definitely a supporting cast beginning to assert itself. Otis has real spunk to him, and Williams brings a little experience. I think that if we can get dedicated performances from Fall and Dia in every game then we have a real chance to show improvement. And if Faye proves to be the asset we hope he is then I think there is a bright future for SMU.

Doh just needs to show me that he gets the best out of his kids.

[papawasamustang]

What things are obvious now that make you think Doh will not get it done? I believe the jury is still out on him. It starts and ends with recruiting. It is not Doh's fault SMU has aliented itself with the local basketball community for the mishandling of Tubbs. However, time heals wounds and the new basketball facility should help with recruiting. I believe Doh gets 2 more years to show progress or he is out of here. If SMU is really serious about being a top 25 team in all sports then a new coach will be brought in if progress is not made in the next few years.

The nice thing about basketball is that a program can turn around quickly if u can land a couple of immediate impact type players & have a coach that can not only recruit but teach & develop the talent. He must be able to relate to his players as well as he relates to the alumni, media, adults.

I think if you look @ trends there are some major concerns.
Doh's basically a .500 coach over his career. His trend over the last 5 years is 66 wins & 86 L's with 1 year in the broadcast booth. Compare that to TCU's recent hire of Jim Christian. 6 consecutive 20 win seasons.

I have watched Doh coach in practice (last season) & have watched him closely in games & I just don't think his strength is X & O's.
I think the hire by Orsini was an excellent PR move @ the time.
Speaking of PR, I really feel that is Doh's greatest asset. Personally,
I think he's a great guy.

Although many say that Doh is a great recruiter it is based on his achievements @ schools 7 to 8 years ago. I have been extremely disappointed in his recruiting @ SMU. There have been many more misses than hits. Maybe its just a developmental thing because many of the kids look the part. Unfortunately, lack of development that falls on the HC.

Maybe my comments are premature but I don't think so.
Hopefully Faye will be that impact player to help take us to the middle of the pack in CUSA.

Bottom line is I will be rooting for our boys regardless to who's coaching.
I like Doh & I hope it works out for him. If I'm wrong than great, that mean's we are winning.

[Hoop Fan]

i was skeptical and critical early on. Doh didnt create the Tubbs PR mess, but he has done very little to repair it either. Not hiring one local guy for his first staff was simply a mistake, but then hiring Lutz instead of a more connected dallas aau and high school guy, was a clear follow up signal to everybody that doh doesnt really care about local talent. Nothing else you can conclude really. Thats the perception and therefore the reality.
And before you tell me that Alex Malone is a Mansfield/SW Dallas guy, he committed to Tubbs and Doh honored the commit.

Another anecdote i will point to that I think was very bad form. Last year Kimball played Highland Park at Ellis Davis. Big game, Doh was there. Sitting behind the HP bench yucking it up with Bubble people the whole time. At least sit in the middle or down at a press table and dont appear biased to any high school program even if you live there.

These things make me think doh is stubborn on one hand and not really as great at PR as everybody thinks. I hope Faye can play because i think he is the swing guy in Dohs 3rd and critical season.

[Pony81]

I thnk Doh has been a success.
You can't just say "He's raised money for Crum and a new million dollar scoreboard" and move on.
Those 2 things are huge and will be a foundation for the program going forward.
I certainly don't see Dement, Shumate, or Tubbs raising that kind of money.

Those contributions alone buy him the full 5 years to see if he's guys pan out.

Having watched many of his games, my overriding comment is that he over coaches his players. He is always up directing them to spots on the floor. You can see them play with an ear to the bench. I think this makes them play tight and without creativity.

[Pony_Fan]

PR is great like everyone says. He is good at that for the past players and boosters. Other coaches couldn't have pulled off a radio show either.

As for local talent, we screwed that up so it is what it is for now.

I do see him overcoaching as well, too many subs and nothing that gels. He needs to relax a bit on the bench and do the coaching more at practice. He seems to tweak to much and the comment after the TCU game to put in a few set plays was disturbing.
I'm hoping he can land just a few studs by year 5 and we'll dance..maybe one and out, but we'll get there. It kills me that Tulsa is almost back to where they were again so quickly.