It takes some time, even with really good coaching

[George S. Patton]

Wth apologies to JasonB on using this line in his post on another thread.

That said, the question is are we getting that?

The kind of talent that SMU is securing should always be better than the talent that Arkansas-Pine Bluff and UT-San Antonio are securing. Thus, SMU -- regardless of its youth factor -- should be winning these games. Period.

The fact that we are not winning these games is completely unacceptable. Matt Doherty talked about UTSA having better depth than the meeting last year. OK, fine. That doesn't matter. The game was in your building and you should have won. How come you didn't?

When the schedule came out, everybody looked at the UAPB and UTSA games as Ws without flinching. Well, the team flinched.

There is a problem with this program and I have hard time accepting the premise that this team will get better in the second half of CUSA play.

When you have so many problems in the post because Papa Dia has decided to take the DAMN year off, Mohammad Faye has turned into a 6-8 jump shooter, Bamba Fall is not an imposing presence because of his lack of playing the game for a long time and Frank Otis is still on training wheels, I don't see how any scoring balance will come.

Talented as they are, McCoy and Williams will be gassed by February and magic number for wins will be 8.

This is not what I call building a program. This is a mess.

Here's what we know:
1. At 3-7, SMU has the worst record among all CUSA teams and is looking at 5-7 to 3-9 before conference play begins. Is that what we expected?
2. Those 3 wins are against a Southern Conference school, Houston Baptist and A&M International. Exciting.
3. By year three, this is when your program should be making noteworthy strides. We're not even close to that.
4. How do we know that the rotation of 8 in the CUSA opener will not look completely different in the second game or the third or the fourth. Are we still going to make the excuse, "Well, he's still looking at different combinations.''

To me, my concerns with the Doherty era surfaced in the Tulsa home loss last year. After we scored the go-ahead bucket, Doherty didn't call a timeout with 6 seconds to go to set our defense. The result was a blown assignment and what turned out to be the coast-to-coast driving layup that gave Tulsa the win. I could live with Tulsa winning on a shot we defended. But we didn't even do that.

College basketball is a coaches game. It always has been. Your coach can make the difference so many times with management and understanding of personnel. That's why guys like Ben Howland moved up from Northern Arizona to Pitt to UCLA and why guys like Perry Clark are hanging on at A&M-CC.

If some of you people want to sit there and say, "Well, the team tried hard and looked better" and all this other crap in LOSSES against inferior competition, then our standards have certainly changed.

The SMU faithful has become complacent with losing and the apathy engulfing SMU athletics is the norm. I really wonder if the model will make that much of a difference.

[FriscoPMG]

I'm curious if Doh was just lying through his teeth when he said this team should be able to flip the schedule and go 20-10 this season or if he truly believed that. I know a coach has to have a positive outlook on the season, but setting the bar at 20 wins is looking to be just silly.

And I still think the lack of development of the returning players is the biggest indictment on the coach. Is it poor recruiting (either lack of talent or lack of work ethic) or is the coaching staff responsible for holding these guys back?

[Pony_Fan]

I'm curious if Doh was just lying through his teeth when he said this team should be able to flip the schedule and go 20-10 this season or if he truly believed that. I know a coach has to have a positive outlook on the season, but setting the bar at 20 wins is looking to be just silly.

And I still think the lack of development of the returning players is the biggest indictment on the coach. Is it poor recruiting (either lack of talent or lack of work ethic) or is the coaching staff responsible for holding these guys back?

I don't see how he could have imagined a 20 win season.

I will give him credit for turning IKE and Killen around. However, Dia and Bamba have been a bust in any kind of development. I haven't heard anything about Dia's back this year, I assume it's fine.

[George S. Patton]

I'm curious if Doh was just lying through his teeth when he said this team should be able to flip the schedule and go 20-10 this season or if he truly believed that. I know a coach has to have a positive outlook on the season, but setting the bar at 20 wins is looking to be just silly.

And I still think the lack of development of the returning players is the biggest indictment on the coach. Is it poor recruiting (either lack of talent or lack of work ethic) or is the coaching staff responsible for holding these guys back?

I don't see how he could have imagined a 20 win season.

I will give him credit for turning IKE and Killen around. However, Dia and Bamba have been a bust in any kind of development. I haven't heard anything about Dia's back this year, I assume it's fine.

If they start talking about Dia's back being a problem, they're only doing it to cover their you know whats.

[PonyPride]

The following are not my ideas - shamelessly stolen from a friend who has the time to look this stuff up:

1. UTSA is not a marquee team, but not a bad team, either. Their roster included exactly zero first-year players last night. Ours, on the other hand, has:
â—

[George S. Patton]

[quote="PonyPride"]The following are not my ideas - shamelessly stolen from a friend who has the time to look this stuff up:

1. UTSA is not a marquee team, but not a bad team, either. Their roster included exactly zero first-year players last night. Ours, on the other hand, has:
â—

[jtstang]

No offense Pride, but your friend is conditioned into accepting losing to inferior programs.

As an SMU follower how could you NOT be?

Unless of course you open your eyes and realize that you ARE the inferior team.

[George S. Patton]

No offense Pride, but your friend is conditioned into accepting losing to inferior programs.

As an SMU follower how could you NOT be?

Unless of course you open your eyes and realize that you ARE the inferior team.

Well, I did say in another thread that we have been reduced to the likes of UTSA and UAPB and that we should go play some guarantee games.

[smupony]

[quote="George S. Patton"][quote="PonyPride"]The following are not my ideas - shamelessly stolen from a friend who has the time to look this stuff up:

1. UTSA is not a marquee team, but not a bad team, either. Their roster included exactly zero first-year players last night. Ours, on the other hand, has:
â—

[George S. Patton]

[quote="smupony"][quote="George S. Patton"][quote="PonyPride"]The following are not my ideas - shamelessly stolen from a friend who has the time to look this stuff up:

1. UTSA is not a marquee team, but not a bad team, either. Their roster included exactly zero first-year players last night. Ours, on the other hand, has:
â—

[smupony]

Sorry...Don't read your posts...I'll try harder next time to read without bringing up my lunch...

[George S. Patton]

Sorry...Don't read your posts...I'll try harder next time to read without bringing up my lunch...

Well, you read two others. Liar!

[smupony]

Sorry...Don't read your posts...I'll try harder next time to read without bringing up my lunch...

Well, you read two others. Liar!

Get a life...

[JasonB]

All I am saying is that I see a team that can at least compete athleticically, which I haven't seen in quite a while, in FB or BB. I see players running around like chickens with their heads cut off, having no clue of what to do on defense. There is no leadership backbone. And as much as college bb is about coaching, it takes time for that stuff to sink in. When your frosh guard is slow sliding over in the 3-2 zone, gives a guy an open drive, and your frosh forward is way out of position, that guy gets a layup. If your experienced bigman is playing down low, he covers for the frosh because of positioning.

I am not letting Doh off the hook. He has brought in three players (Dia, Fall, Faye) with relatively little bball expereince and thus a low bball IQ. You combine that with a bunch of youth, and you have a lot of problems. Instead, what I am suggesting is that we now can athletically compete with people. I am not banging on Doh yet because he needs time to shape this group. But I will bang on him if we don't see significant improvement in the second half of conference play. This should actually be a good team next season, because these are good players. THere is more athletic depth here than has been around in quite a while. Like I said in the other thread, we are dealing with a Tunrer Gill situation here. No talent, remake the roster. second half of this year we should see improvement, and next year we should be good. Those are the milestones to judge Doh by.

Case in point: McCoy is our best player. He hits all of his FT in the first half, and kills us with FT misses in the second. That isn't on Doh. That is a frosh who is losing his legs in his first college season. McCoy can't stay positioned well in the zone and can't stay with his mark in man defense in the second. It isn't because McCoy sucks, it is because he is a frosh losing his legs in his first college season, and losing his focus at the end of a game. These things happen with a young team. I expect it to get better with coaching, but it takes time. It isn't instantaneous.

[PonyPatrol]

It isn't instantaneous.

Yeah, I think we got that. It wasn't instantaneous five years ago either, and still we here are...worse. That goes for both sports.The same excuses over and over and over. We're always young and we're always getting better, yet the results never come.

General is right. With pretty legitimate players, in terms of mid-major recruiting, these guys should be able to beat UTSA or Pine Bluff coaching themselves. It is inconceivabe that our talent advantage over these teams is negated time after time. AGE SHOULD BE INCONSEQUENTIAL against teams of this caliber. I don't have any answers, but for anyone to defend Doh at this point is pretty clueless. These type of performances wouldn't be tolerated by any comparable fanbase.