Memo to SMU men's hoops: Drop the act against the DISD

[Stallion]

I agree that it should be easier for SMU to recruit local players(but the reality is that SMU not Doherty poisened the well with a really pretty amateur treatment of Tubbs). I think that people that dismiss Dallas/ Texas players and claim you can get just as good players anywhere are generally speaking theoretically and not very practically. SMU needs to recruit Texas. Pony Doh-I know you are insistent that this is not a BB hotbed-I've been looking at recruiting numbers for about 6-8 years that just can't be reconciled with that claim. Of course, Texas and particularly the Metroplex is producing a huge number of players competing at the highest levels of the NCAAs and heading to the Pros. There simply are few areas that produce more-there are some-but not many.

[The XtC]

Papa, you ever going to answer my question about what the model is for SMU hoops, taking into consideration it's NOT a huge state university, so your Gillespie quote need not apply. What other small WHITE private universities, w/actual academics and limited bunk degrees, w/quality facilities are we emulating? What's their approach to recruiting?

I think this is a very valid question, and worth more discussion. What are the examples of success that we could possibly emulate? What examples might we want to avoid? It might be instructive to look at the Tulsa teams of the late 90's-early 2000s, the TCU teams under Billy Tubbs and present, Gonzaga, both past and present, and perhaps also Rice, which seems to be on the rise with a good recruiting class for next year.

I'm fairly familiar with the Tulsa, TCU, and Rice histories, and I took a brief look at Gonzaga's roster this afternoon. I dont have time at this moment to write a good synopsis, but perhaps over night I can put down a few thoughts.

[FIVE-O-FAN]

Marquette is a program that comes to mind. They benefit from their proximity to Chicago but they also recruit well in the northeast. They have run through a number of coaches up there that have all had varying degrees of success. Definitely no bunk degrees.

[WildBillPony]

Anybody know why Coach Doh was in Kansas earlier this week?
Yep...not Dallas but still curious.

[The XtC]

They're looking at a JC guard up there. I dont know if that's the reason, but it could be.

[papawasamustang]

Papa, you ever going to answer my question about what the model is for SMU hoops, taking into consideration it's NOT a huge state university, so your Gillespie quote need not apply. What other small WHITE private universities, w/actual academics and limited bunk degrees, w/quality facilities are we emulating? What's their approach to recruiting?

I think this is a very valid question, and worth more discussion. What are the examples of success that we could possibly emulate? What examples might we want to avoid? It might be instructive to look at the Tulsa teams of the late 90's-early 2000s, the TCU teams under Billy Tubbs and present, Gonzaga, both past and present, and perhaps also Rice, which seems to be on the rise with a good recruiting class for next year.

I think I've done about as good a job of explaining what I feel needs to be done as I can in my previous posts. If you are talking about other schools that recruit their backyards well than Purdue comes to mind along with Tx A&M right off the top of my head. The A&M program really seemed to take it to the next level when they started landing some of the top talent in DFW/Texas. Also, Stanford has had a pretty decent amount of Calf players on their roster in the past but I'm not sure about this years squad & doesn't Wake do a pretty good job of recruiting in their region? I would say a few others that come to mind are Butler, Northwestern, Temple, Saint Josephs & maybe Xavier just to name a few. I'm sure there are others.

I don't think it really matters anyway because most will disagree anyway. The losing culture is accepted & it doesn't look like anyone really cares if it changes or not except a few. As someone that thinks outside the back I say screw all the models & lets create our own.
Learn from previous mistakes, correct them & put a winning team on the court.

[papawasamustang]

Anybody know why Coach Doh was in Kansas earlier this week?
Yep...not Dallas but still curious.

If you look @ the attachment below you can see that there are alot of highly rated unsigned JC players in Kansas.

http://jucojunction.rivals.com/viewrank.asp?ra_key=2309

[PonySnob]

June Jones has an advantage over Doherty locally because he has a reputation as a miracle worker

When will he start working "miracles" here at SMU? That one win last year was the most expensive victory in SMU history!

[White Helmet]

Anybody know why Coach Doh was in Kansas earlier this week?
Yep...not Dallas but still curious.

If you look @ the attachment below you can see that there are alot of highly rated unsigned JC players in Kansas.

http://jucojunction.rivals.com/viewrank.asp?ra_key=2309

are they from DFW originally? because if not they get the ax

[papawasamustang]

Anybody know why Coach Doh was in Kansas earlier this week?
Yep...not Dallas but still curious.

If you look @ the attachment below you can see that there are alot of highly rated unsigned JC players in Kansas.

http://jucojunction.rivals.com/viewrank.asp?ra_key=2309

are they from DFW originally? because if not they get the ax

Let me try to explain it again to folks like u that don't get it.
Continue to spread yourself thin all over the country trying to land avg talent or have a mission statement that lets every HS & JUCO coach in the DFW/Texas know that recruiting and developing a winning program using their talent is the #1 priority & that the majority of resources will be spend doing it. However, that does not mean that you will not recruit outside the area. But you have to have a plan & follow through with it & based on what I see the current plan isn't working.

[papawasamustang]

Anybody know why Coach Doh was in Kansas earlier this week?
Yep...not Dallas but still curious.

If you look @ the attachment below you can see that there are alot of highly rated unsigned JC players in Kansas.

http://jucojunction.rivals.com/viewrank.asp?ra_key=2309

are they from DFW originally? because if not they get the ax

Let me try to explain it again to folks like u that don't get it.
Continue to spread yourself thin all over the country trying to land talent or have a mission statement that lets every HS, AAU & JUCO coach in the DFW/Texas know that recruiting and developing a winning program using their talent is the #1 priority & that the majority of resources will be spend doing it. This should have been the first thing Doh did when he arrived here. Hopefully, the next coach will.

That does not mean that you will not recruit outside the area. But you have to have a plan & follow through with it & based on what I see the current plan isn't working.

[papawasamustang]

papa,
let me ask you a question - if it came down to SMU, Tulsa and Baylor (just throwing those schools out there) for Evans do you really think Carter's coach would prefer him go to SMU?

LA,
Sorry I'm so late for responding to your question.

I really think the whole Tubbs/DISD thing is water under the bridge. I base that on my conversation with the Carter coach. He could care less.
I take the Carter's coach @ his word. My conversation was directed toward their big center Shaw & he was the one that brought up the fact that we were recruiting Evans. He said he had no problem with him going to SMU. Then we started talking about other DISD kids like Willis, the very good guard @ Pinkston.
I'm not sure who Evans AAU coach is but maybe that's where the disconnect is with this whole local recruiting situation.
Also, as I have previously mentioned, I do not think that Doh, Lutz & Barnes have made the DISD/DFW/ Texas area their top priority & that is also a major part of the problem imo (HS & JUCO).

[papawasamustang]

Something I just ran accross that interested me. A couple Dallas players SMU offered in the top 20 players rated by Texas Hoops for the 2008 class.

London Giles- Kimball HS
2 star #18 player in Texas
Offers from Nevada and SMU- chose Nevada
I want to say he committed somewhere fairly big-time then had his offer pulled. Maybe Arizona or Arizona St.
http://texashoops.rivals.com/viewprospe ... 38&Sport=2

Zach Williams- Skyline HS
2 star #16 player in Texas
Offers from SFA, Albany, SMU, and SHSU- chose SFA
http://texashoops.rivals.com/viewprospe ... 33&Sport=2

Giles was suspended by the Nevada HC along with 2 other players for misconduct before the season. He is avg. 1 per per game & deep on the pine.He only took 1 visit & that was to Nevada were he eventually committed.
If Doh offered Wiliams than that was a mistake imo.

[PonyDoh]

Papa, you ever going to answer my question about what the model is for SMU hoops, taking into consideration it's NOT a huge state university, so your Gillespie quote need not apply. What other small WHITE private universities, w/actual academics and limited bunk degrees, w/quality facilities are we emulating? What's their approach to recruiting?

I think this is a very valid question, and worth more discussion. What are the examples of success that we could possibly emulate? What examples might we want to avoid? It might be instructive to look at the Tulsa teams of the late 90's-early 2000s, the TCU teams under Billy Tubbs and present, Gonzaga, both past and present, and perhaps also Rice, which seems to be on the rise with a good recruiting class for next year.

I think I've done about as good a job of explaining what I feel needs to be done as I can in my previous posts. If you are talking about other schools that recruit their backyards well than Purdue comes to mind along with Tx A&M right off the top of my head. The A&M program really seemed to take it to the next level when they started landing some of the top talent in DFW/Texas. Also, Stanford has had a pretty decent amount of Calf players on their roster in the past but I'm not sure about this years squad & doesn't Wake do a pretty good job of recruiting in their region? I would say a few others that come to mind are Butler, Northwestern, Temple, Saint Josephs & maybe Xavier just to name a few. I'm sure there are others.

I don't think it really matters anyway because most will disagree anyway. The losing culture is accepted & it doesn't look like anyone really cares if it changes or not except a few. As someone that thinks outside the back I say screw all the models & lets create our own.
Learn from previous mistakes, correct them & put a winning team on the court.

So, you are beating the drum of local players, but have no 'like' model to compare SMU to? The question wasn't who recruits their own backyards b/c MOST public universities do. It's a very different model then what a small, private, predominantly white, affluent, school, w/no special majors, tend to use.

Over the weekend, i'll break it down by conference and roster, you'll see what I mean. Comparing SMU to A&M, OU, UT or any other massive state school, is apples and oranges. You can't quote Gillespie in this thread 10 times, if you don't understand the difference in philosophy between A&M and SMU etc. We have to have a very different plan, if we are to become a national program.

You can't say screw other models, b/c these are the barriers of entry. Its not just about being iced by the DISD, or not being popular amongst locals. It's about having a model, emulating programs, knowing what works for them, and working it for yourself

[PonyDoh]

I agree that it should be easier for SMU to recruit local players(but the reality is that SMU not Doherty poisened the well with a really pretty amateur treatment of Tubbs). I think that people that dismiss Dallas/ Texas players and claim you can get just as good players anywhere are generally speaking theoretically and not very practically. SMU needs to recruit Texas. Pony Doh-I know you are insistent that this is not a BB hotbed-I've been looking at recruiting numbers for about 6-8 years that just can't be reconciled with that claim. Of course, Texas and particularly the Metroplex is producing a huge number of players competing at the highest levels of the NCAAs and heading to the Pros. There simply are few areas that produce more-there are some-but not many.

I'm not saying Texas isn't a viable hoops hotbed, at the elite level. As a collective of cities, they produce a ton of players. I'm saying their isn't the depth, especially on a city by city basis. Texas ball is fine and competes w/Atlanta/DC etc, but Dallas by itself doesn't. Houston is closer, but still a 2nd tier hoops city. Look what happens when a Duncanville travels.

BTW, I'm certainly not against locals, not at all, but its just part of the solution. This program needs to recruit better locally and nationally