Doherty needs to go

by **LA_Mustang** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:20 pm

smupony wrote:Agreed on all fronts. Still have problems with his gameday coaching, but most everything else fits. I like Coach Doh and hope he is here for a long time.

See this is what I don't get. I understand that you like him but you hope he's here for a long time without him proving or accomplishing anything??

by **mustangxc** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:28 pm

LA_Mustang wrote:
smupony wrote:Agreed on all fronts. Still have problems with his gameday coaching, but most everything else fits. I like Coach Doh and hope he is here for a long time.

See this is what I don't get. I understand that you like him but you hope he's here for a long time without him proving or accomplishing anything??

It think these people are hopeful that he gets it turned around and subsequently sticks around for a long time with a string of consecutive NCAA bids with NIT bid in down years.

by **friarwolf** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:40 pm

Stallion wrote:at least in the past you could generally pick up some decent JUCOs in the spring recruiting period-I just checked Rivals to consider whether that was the case and there are a pretty decent list of kids who are 3 Stars and above. Sometimes schools wait on JUCOS to see if they are going to qualify. BTW an old named popped up as one of the highest ranking unsigned JUCOs. Remember Gary Flowers a 6-8 Forward from Dallas Lincoln who considered SMU when Tubbs was here. Anybody know if he has got all his academic issues in place. I think he had multiple academic problems and or suspension issues in high school and at Oklahoma St. so he might not be availiable but who knows maybe he straightened himself out.

I am very familiar with this kid and trust me, we don't need him and his trainload full of baggage. Between high school and college, he probably has already had a minimum of 10 stops along the way. Calling him a head case is being extremely kind.

by **Stallion** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:51 pm

looks like Seton Hall and others are waiting to see if he can actually graduate

by **friarwolf** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:07 pm

I have no doubt he will con someone to take him and my bet is he won't make it to January.............He is a "coach killer"..................

by **bagice** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:50 pm

Glad to see this thread evolve into some nice discussions and constructive critisism.

I know I have come off as very Pro-Doherty, but I am very unhappy at where we are at...I just think that firing the coach and starting over again is not the way to go.

One thing I would like to address is the notion that Doherty's Xs and Os are not up to snuff. Believe me, in the heat of a game, I am as guilty as anyone of questioning some of the things he does, mostly his subbing pattern...but at the end of the day, I think we are putting way too much into that.

In actuality, we lose games because our players are not as good as the players we are playing against. Its easy to blame the coach and say if we did this or did that , we mighta won but really what we are asking for is not better coaching but a guy that can pull off a minor miracle every night by consistently beating a team with better and more experienced players. Coaching a game is not rocket science, are there some great floor generals out there?, yes...can a key decision at the right time contribute to winning a game?, of course....I saw Doherty settle down the subbing at the end of the year, and he seemed to always have a good game plan. Calipari even commended him after the game here in Dallas for his coaching and preparation. I think he subbed so much because he has so many youngsters and he was trying to find someone to step up.

Recruiting and continued development of the players is where we are going to win this battle and start collecting a string of W's...wondering why the hell Ryan Harp is in the game or why we are playing a zone will have little to no impact.

That's why I am still on the bandwagon, I think he is exceptional in evaluating and developing talent. I am sure he would like to land some better recruits, but remember, SMU has had 3 coaches in five years and have struggled to get outta single digit wins for the season over that time frame....Not conducive to recruiting. He played a big role in the building of the Crum Center and that should help.

Give him time to get the recruits he wants and he may very well get it done.

by **Charleston Pony** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:10 pm

nobody is pleased with where the program is today, but does anyone really believe that if enough "difference makers" were available and wanted to sign with SMU; that Doherty wouldn't make room on the roster?

Just like we are seeing with Jones and the football program, we can expect more roster changes until this team is competitive. Only Orsini can tell us what the "patience" timeline might be for Doherty to get it done. Clearly the talent is not here yet to win in CUSA.

by **papawasamustang** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:30 pm

Charleston Pony wrote:nobody is pleased with where the program is today, but does anyone really believe that if enough "difference makers" were available and wanted to sign with SMU; that Doherty wouldn't make room on the roster?

Just like we are seeing with Jones and the football program, we can expect more roster changes until this team is competitive. Only Orsini can tell us what the "patience" timeline might be for Doherty to get it done. Clearly the talent is not here yet to win in CUSA.

From what I have seen in person, the argument can be made that we have just as much, if not more talent than Tulane, UCF, Rice, Southern Miss, Marshall & East Carolina. This years team was soft mentally & physically. They need to get bigger & stronger, especially the post players & wings & they need to develop an attitude.
I look to the coach for recruiting players that mesh well together, that are fundamentally sound, buy into the system (whatever that is) & execute the game plan. I see talent but obviously it didn't mesh & that falls on the HC. This was a very disappointing season for me. Personally, I expected alot better execution on the court. As I mentioned above, I was really surprised/disappointed how mentally & physically soft we were. Even though many didn't expect much, I thought the squad really underachieved.

I wish Doh the best of luck this spring recruiting & I hope they have a tremendous off season program. I really look forward to seeing a much improved team in all phases of the game next season.

by **Dwan** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:22 am

I love that Dave Bliss is mentioned in this thread. One of the worst kept secrets it that when the football program got the death penalty, the basketball program under Bliss was just as if not worse than the football program. After the football program was given the death penalty, the NCAA found just as much damning evidence for the basketball program but the the NCAA chose to ignore it because they felt that they had done enough damage to the school. Bliss was quietly fired because of this.

by **RGV Pony** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:30 am

Dwan wrote: Bliss was quietly fired because of this.

I thought he went to coach UNM after they were turned down by Gene Keady and Bob Knight-yes, Bob Knight-who then endorsed Bliss for the UNM job.

by **mrydel** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:00 am

RGV Pony wrote:
Dwan wrote: Bliss was quietly fired because of this.

I thought he went to coach UNM after they were turned down by Gene Keady and Bob Knight-yes, Bob Knight-who then endorsed Bliss for the UNM job.

Fired or quit I do not know but the statement of death penalty violations by the BB team is true. Even the NCAA realized a double DP was overkill.

by **mathman** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:37 am

Sad but true.

by **Stallion** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:46 am

Dave Bliss has very little to do with this thread. The issue is how long it takes once a Coach gets his players to turn a program around. The point was that Dave Bliss struggled until he got better players. Dwan going off on a tangent.

by **George S. Patton** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:33 pm

Speaking of tangents, Bliss that great roster for John Shumate for 1988-89 with Longino, Perdue, Puddy, Alexander and Armstrong (I think I've got that right -- McKinney graduated after the 1987-88 season). And that group produced 13-16.

And Shumate did nothing but mess that up. Yes, I know Kato flunked out after the first semester and I think Alexander kept leaving the team for personal situations.

Still, that season might be among the most disappointing in my time with SMU because of what was expected and what happened.

by **PoconoPony** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:03 pm

papawasamustang wrote:
Charleston Pony wrote:nobody is pleased with where the program is today, but does anyone really believe that if enough "difference makers" were available and wanted to sign with SMU; that Doherty wouldn't make room on the roster?

Just like we are seeing with Jones and the football program, we can expect more roster changes until this team is competitive. Only Orsini can tell us what the "patience" timeline might be for Doherty to get it done. Clearly the talent is not here yet to win in CUSA.

From what I have seen in person, the argument can be made that we have just as much, if not more talent than Tulane, UCF, Rice, Southern Miss, Marshall & East Carolina. This years team was soft mentally & physically. They need to get bigger & stronger, especially the post players & wings & they need to develop an attitude.
I look to the coach for recruiting players that mesh well together, that are fundamentally sound, buy into the system (whatever that is) & execute the game plan. I see talent but obviously it didn't mesh & that falls on the HC. This was a very disappointing season for me. Personally, I expected alot better execution on the court. As I mentioned above, I was really surprised/disappointed how mentally & physically soft we were. Even though many didn't expect much, I thought the squad really underachieved.

I wish Doh the best of luck this spring recruiting & I hope they have a tremendous off season program. I really look forward to seeing a much improved team in all phases of the game next season.

These are the exact observations that I posted on another tread on this board immediately after the SMU tournament last November in which I predicted an 8 win season. Our front line was both mentally and physically soft, lacked strength and appeared clueless as to what they should be doing for extended portions of most games. I really thought they would figure things out and jell at some point in the season. Not to be and we did underachieve. Talent is the biggest issue; however, better coaching in all aspects of the game is needed. Biggest concern is that I do not see any improvement in sight based on what Doh currently has on the table for next year. We need a major injection of toughness, strength and determination on the front line.

I appreciate the difficulty of building a winning team especially today with so many Div ( or what ever it is now called) teams all pressured to win and looking for talent. As I posted in another thread earlier the coaches from Providence, Marquette and DePaul have all been quoted on ESPN telecasts as saying that it takes 6 years to build a competitive team in the Big East. C-USA is certainly not the Big East; however, the point is that it simply takes time especially to rebuild programs that have been down for a period of years. Doh needs more time to produce results, but he also needs to start demonstrating that he can improve players and provide better game coaching and situational management.

Doherty needs to go

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