Lack of MBB Marque Recruit

[Pony81]

I'm a fan of Matt D.
Class act.
Brings attention to the program in a positive way.

But.....

Given his inability to land a marque recruit is more damning than his recent record - which is pathetic in a pathetic conference.

Bliss got lots of rope because he and staff was bringing in the fellas (Davis, Koncak, Wright). Same with Dement (Sasser, Q, Bop).

Fans could see a future.

Doh - sorry. Look at Memphis and you see a program ranked consistently in the top 5 in recruiting simply because of the coach.

Doh gets his 5 years but is canned not simply because of a poor record but because he can't get the fellas and show that there is a future to SMU MBB.

[Mustang22]

+1

[papawasamustang]

I'm a fan of Matt D.
Class act.
Brings attention to the program in a positive way.

But.....

Given his inability to land a marque recruit is more damning than his recent record - which is pathetic in a pathetic conference.

Bliss got lots of rope because he and staff was bringing in the fellas (Davis, Koncak, Wright). Same with Dement (Sasser, Q, Bop).

Fans could see a future.

Doh - sorry. Look at Memphis and you see a program ranked consistently in the top 5 in recruiting simply because of the coach.

Doh gets his 5 years but is canned not simply because of a poor record but because he can't get the fellas and show that there is a future to SMU MBB.

Below are my grades for the Doh & Lutz show re: recruiting:

Year 1
Cameron Spencer- F (no longer with team)

Year 2
Benny Rhodes-F ( no longer with team)
Ryan Harp- D- (I'm convinced that Doh has brain washed the kid)
Mike Walker- C-(shooting guard in a pg body)
Papa Dia- C (key to 2009-10 season. Is his back OK?)
TK- F (will this be his year to contribute or is he just to slow)
Alex Malone-F (no longer with the team)
RK-B- (1 dimensional type player(shooter) needs to get stronger & improve his ballhandling & rebounding but shows great range with his J.

Year 3
Paul McCoy- A (I'm thankful he went to JJ's high school)
Derek Williams-A (I thought he did a great job handling the rock)
Frank Otis C- (undersized & can't shoot a lick but makes up for it with toughness & hustle)

Others

Faye- B ( expect a big year from him next season )
Dubois- F ( cluster)
JO- F ( another cluster)

Will see how it all plays out for Luttman, Clinkscales & #3 who hasn't been finalized yet.

Bottom Line: With the type of instability that we have seen in recruiting its easy to see why we have back to back 10 & 9 win seasons. It all starts with recruiting & wasn't that Doh's strength?

[davidpaul123]

i guess it goes to show the recruiting he did at Kansas and UNC had little to do with him and more to do with the fact that those schools are perrenial powerhouses.

his recruting at SMU has been lousy at best(outside of mccoy, who i think was really recruited by J.J.)

[originaloverthehilltop1]

not sure the bliss regime is a reasonable yardstick. that was an era of paid players and bliss apparently left under that cloud. didn't they? also was recruiting into a southwest conference era, not cusa. not saying the player evaluations don't have some merrit.

at least one big measure has to be progress in the league. about which a lot of us are wondering.

what are other reasonable measures for this job?

[Dwan]

I disagree that doh is a bad recruiter....I think he is either bad at evaluating talent or bad and developing talent or a combo of the two. If you look at how pathetic SMU basketball had been, consider the fact the the DISD coaches hated SMU for firing Tubbs, then look at the kind of offers his first two classes had.....he brought in kids that had offers from Louisville and Stanford among others...well, he was bringing is some highly sought after kids....problem is none of them developed. Is Doh a bad coach or Doh bad at evaluating talent....fair question.

[PoconoPony]

I disagree that doh is a bad recruiter....I think he is either bad at evaluating talent or bad and developing talent or a combo of the two. If you look at how pathetic SMU basketball had been, consider the fact the the DISD coaches hated SMU for firing Tubbs, then look at the kind of offers his first two classes had.....he brought in kids that had offers from Louisville and Stanford among others...well, he was bringing is some highly sought after kids....problem is none of them developed. Is Doh a bad coach or Doh bad at evaluating talent....fair question.

I was not paying attention to basketball during the Tubbs era; however, seriously question the accepted idea on this board that the DISD coaches dislike SMU for his dismissal. I have several contacts on campus who were very close to the program during the Tubbs era and they have very little regard for his ability to coach and particularly for his always critical and negative handling of his players. His players were never positively reinforced, encouraged or complemented. He was always critical and destroyed their confidence. He did restore dicipline to the program. It is my opinion that the DISD coaches recognized his considerable negativity and were reluctant to send kids into that environment. Tubbs challenged the DISD coaches to support him when he got the job with their support. They did not support him when word got out as to his treatment and lack of support to his players. At least that is the picture painted vividly to me by people who were there on a daily basis observing the program. This was a major factor in his firing as it was well known and put at the top of the list for Orsini to immediately address.

[PonyDoh]

I disagree that doh is a bad recruiter....I think he is either bad at evaluating talent or bad and developing talent or a combo of the two. If you look at how pathetic SMU basketball had been, consider the fact the the DISD coaches hated SMU for firing Tubbs, then look at the kind of offers his first two classes had.....he brought in kids that had offers from Louisville and Stanford among others...well, he was bringing is some highly sought after kids....problem is none of them developed. Is Doh a bad coach or Doh bad at evaluating talent....fair question.

I was not paying attention to basketball during the Tubbs era; however, seriously question the accepted idea on this board that the DISD coaches dislike SMU for his dismissal. I have several contacts on campus who were very close to the program during the Tubbs era and they have very little regard for his ability to coach and particularly for his always critical and negative handling of his players. His players were never positively reinforced, encouraged or complemented. He was always critical and destroyed their confidence. He did restore dicipline to the program. It is my opinion that the DISD coaches recognized his considerable negativity and were reluctant to send kids into that environment. Tubbs challenged the DISD coaches to support him when he got the job with their support. They did not support him when word got out as to his treatment and lack of support to his players. At least that is the picture painted vividly to me by people who were there on a daily basis observing the program. This was a major factor in his firing as it was well known and put at the top of the list for Orsini to immediately address.

and how is any of that different then what is happening now? Local coaches and AAU programs don't send their kids to SMU, mostly b/c they don't trust Doh, his system, or how he manages the program. Whether he's still seen as abusive, I'm not sure, but inept isn't a much better as a reputation.

[NickSMU17]

Let the tubbs bashing go...

Jimmy Tubbs, the former head coach at SMU and Dallas Kimball High School, died on Saturday.

Causes of death are unknown. He was 60.

Tubbs became SMU's 15th head coach in 2004. He was fired in 2006 after a 13-16 season. He compiled a 27-30 record with the Mustangs.

Tubbs, in addition, spent 12 seasons as an SMU assistant and two more as an assistant at Oklahoma. Tubbs also led Kimball to a UIL Class 5A state championship in 1990.

Tubbs in 2003 was named one of CollegeInsider.com's 50 most eligible bachelors of college basketball.

[Stallion]

PoconoPony
that's a pretty ignorant post unless you want to ignore the facts. Seriously i'd suggest not even posting on the subject because you obviously don't know the facts. You can say he wasn't a great Coach but he had the most success BY FAR of any Coach at SMU in recruiting in 20 years and he did it with Dallas players at least 8-10 of which were top prospects. At one point with a couple of games left in season his players had us at No. 39 in the Nation in RPI and he was recruiting under a much tougher standard at the time. A couple of bonehead plays and a couple of miracle shots derailed that team but they had real talent-something we haven't seen around here for awhile. Further, for whatever reason you want to deny that SMU lack of recruiting success has nothing to do with termination. All I know is that it has dried up.

[PoconoPony]

PoconoPony
that's a pretty ignorant post unless you want to ignore the facts. Seriously i'd suggest not even posting on the subject because you obviously don't know the facts. You can say he wasn't a great Coach but he had the most success BY FAR of any Coach at SMU in recruiting in 20 years and he did it with Dallas players at least 8-10 of which were top prospects. At one point with a couple of games left in season his players had us at No. 39 in the Nation in RPI and he was recruiting under a much tougher standard at the time. A couple of bonehead plays and a couple of miracle shots derailed that team but they had real talent-something we haven't seen around here for awhile. Further, for whatever reason you want to deny that SMU lack of recruiting success has nothing to do with termination. All I know is that it has dried up.

I do not dispute your facts and they are well taken; however, stick by my statement that the honeymoon was over with Tubbs. His players were turning/had turned against him for his constant negativity, unrelenting criticism, lack of positive reinforcement and fear of making any mistakes. At the end most did not want to play for him and he had become aloof. Word was out and this is the point where the DISD coaches started rethinking their support for him. I personally liked the guy having had 3 occasions in the mid 90s to have had lengthy one on one conversations with him at Moody including one lunch. My impression at that time was that he was a good recruiter and really identified with the kids. I can only conjecture that the pressure, stress and responsibilities of the head coaching position changed his easy going demeanor and he started to become critical and personally drifted apart and lost the respect of his players.

[Pony_Fan]

RIP Tubbs.

Here we are talking about the same type of things ten years later. Tubbs was obviously talented in getting kids during the Sasser years. I assume he recruited Ross?

The head coach job just seemed a little too big for him from what I could tell. It got ugly pretty fast. The Hop years were sad, could have been so much better with talent around him.

[Pony81]

I wanted Jimmy to be successful at SMU. I supported the program by buying season tickets.

However, I do think Jimmy tightened up under the pressure and couldn't do the "CEO" things expected of a HC. An assistant can stick to one thing - in this case recruiting - and let the HC get all the critizism and some of the praise.

But I think he was a good man.

The aftermath of his tenure is that DISD coaches couldn't steer TOP players to SMU but they could easily steer them away.

Doh is done after 5 years if his recruiting doesn't pick up.

[PonyDoh]

I wanted Jimmy to be successful at SMU. I supported the program by buying season tickets.

However, I do think Jimmy tightened up under the pressure and couldn't do the "CEO" things expected of a HC. An assistant can stick to one thing - in this case recruiting - and let the HC get all the critizism and some of the praise.

But I think he was a good man.

The aftermath of his tenure is that DISD coaches couldn't steer TOP players to SMU but they could easily steer them away.

Doh is done after 5 years if his recruiting doesn't pick up.

Next hire should be a high level assistant in Texas....see Russell Springman, or someone that has a record of recruiting to mid majors. Doh was selling Kansas, Notre Dame & UNC, which inflated his rep. He has no concept how to prospect and close on 2nd & 3rd tier kids, w/o all that tradition at his back

[EastStang]

Without talent its much tougher to win. Now Doh has to show he can coach. He has middling talent on this team, but still enough tools that if he can coach them up, he could have a .500 or better team. At this point, he can save his future at SMU by showing the world that he can coach these players to victory. That's what he has to do.