Paul Johnson or June Jones

[mathman]

Both Johnson and Jones are hugh upgrades over Bennett. Both coaches have a distinct offense and proven success......something SMU has not had in a head coach in a long, long time. I do not blame Johnson for taking the Ga. Tech. job though. I would have been just as excited if he were hired to be SMU's coach. I am still shocked we have Jones. There are not a lot of Texas college coaches that have turned around teams like Jones has and not many have coached in a BCS game. I like where SMU is going and I like the positive vibes surrounding the team. Win, lose, or draw at least SMU if finally putting forth a good-faith effort to put a winning team on the field. I am once again proud to be an SMU football fan and I now wear my SMU gear in public with pride.

Excellent response. Agree on everything you said.

[davidpaul123]

Getting either of these coaches at the time would have been considered to be huge for SMU. As it stands we got one, and he's the right man for the job.

[OC Mustang]

I would like to echo the others in their positive view of this thread. With all of the SFA drivel going on in some other threads, this one actually talks football, and it makes for interesting reading when I otherwise would be on to the next thread.

Thanks for that...it has been worth the input from everybody.

[orguy]

Jury is out on JJ. Glad he is here though. Anything is better than that the pornoaggiemustache
man. I honestly think that this program was in such disarray when JJ took over I'm willing to forgive last season. JJ has some serious rebuilding to do as he has not proven anything yet. Hawaii was downright steamrolled by georgia. Counting this as "BCS experience" is rubbish. That Hawaii team looked as bad as a Divsion 2 team. I still think Larry Coker has proven quite a bit more than JJ ever did though he ultimately lost control of the program at Miami.

I doubt PJ would have had won many games last year though he probably would have played Willis more (and rightly so). I could care less about the style of football and whether its "exciting". W's are what counts. Perhaps the run and shoot is good for SMU simply because it is difficult for a CUSA school to recruit elite Defensive talent.

The ACC is not the SEC as of late though at times historically its been a super strong conference.

Excepting the SEC and Big12 South, the ACC is no worse than other big conference imo. Is the Pac 10 stronger than the ACC? if you take USC out of the equation what are you left with? weak teams with oregon and oregon state making occasional noises.

[couch 'em]

Jones' situation in Hawaii was more similar to SMU than PJ's situation at Navy due to the special service academy privileges. Jones' was more proven, and that's exactly what we needed to get. Someone who is a proven head coach in a rebuilding situation like SMU's.

[PerunaPunch]

I wanted SMU to make the PJ hire, and was bummed when he left for greener pastures. I also think PJ would have produced many more wins last year, as his system fit better with our established talent.

That being said, I believe JJ is a better coach and should ultimately be more successful than PJ would have been. JJ has demonstrated this fall that he's willing to tweak his system for the personnel and the competition.

I also firmly believe that -- for once -- the Mustangs caught a break. Orsini completely lucked out in the June Jones lotto when JJ fell right into his lap because UofH muffed JJ's contract, and after all the bravado, JJ couldn't really go back to them. We flat out got lucky. We were the only team in the right place at the right time.

Also, as proven last year with a very young O-line, this offense doesn't necessarily take a wall of NFL calibre Samoans to run. The current unit is solid, and should be quite good the next few years.

[2112]

tha messiah june jones hath cometh

"Anyone who had followed June Jones, who knew how he built his program and what he thought of SMU's program should have known this was really a silly waste of time. Can we now get on with hiring a Head Coach...?" -- Stallion, December 25, 2007 11:38 pm

[Mexmustang]

Thanks for your posts! I believe in order to put "butts in seats" JJ's offense is a much better fit for SMU. Once we start winning people will start to come to the games, just to see his flying circus, its novel, and the prices vs. Jerry World are dirt cheap. It will be great entertainment and make for great conversations around the water cooler Monday mornings.

[smuuth]

I don't think you have to be unconventional to win. Was Fry unconventional at NTSU? Was Snyder unconventional at KSU(inheriting the worst team in the history of college footall)? Was Barnett unconventional at Northwestern? The old fundamental rules of blocking and tackling and hard work still rule today.I remember listening to a radio interview where Avezzano(?) said that Oregon and Oregon State would never compete in the PAC 10. No. You just need to have a solid plan, hopefully have hired some good assistants(especially coordinators) recruit well to fit your needs and style of play. It sure helps speed-up the process if the fans, students, admin. buy into the process early and do their part to support the team with positives which will help recruiting rather than say " I will support the team when they start winning". Also, you somehow have to get the local media to like and want to support the program instead of bashing it at every chance. Everyone seems to focus on the offensive side of the ball but the quickest way to a turnaround is with good defense and the kicking game.

[StingStang]

I don't think you have to be unconventional to win. Was Fry unconventional at NTSU? Was Snyder unconventional at KSU(inheriting the worst team in the history of college footall)? Was Barnett unconventional at Northwestern? The old fundamental rules of blocking and tackling and hard work still rule today.I remember listening to a radio interview where Avezzano(?) said that Oregon and Oregon State would never compete in the PAC 10. No. You just need to have a solid plan, hopefully have hired some good assistants(especially coordinators) recruit well to fit your needs and style of play. It sure helps speed-up the process if the fans, students, admin. buy into the process early and do their part to support the team with positives which will help recruiting rather than say " I will support the team when they start winning". Also, you somehow have to get the local media to like and want to support the program instead of bashing it at every chance. Everyone seems to focus on the offensive side of the ball but the quickest way to a turnaround is with good defense and the kicking game.

Well, Snyder was running spread option ideas before anyone was calling it that. Sounds pretty innovative to me. And he was from the Hayden Fry coaching tree. And Barnett had two good seasons out of 7. 35-45-1 overall at NW. He couldn't CONSISTENTLY beat Goliath, and only found success when he had comparable talent.



Yeah, you don't have to be unconventional to win. But it damn sure helps if you're trying to cover up a talent or size deficiency. Either be unconventional (Utah, Boise State, Hawaii) or be physically dominant (USC, UT, LSU), or better yet a little of both (Florida).

At GT we'd been beating our heads against a wall with Chan Gailey for 7 years. A very solid pro-style coach to be sure, good recruiter, we would always win our 7/8 games and go to a bowl. But that system demands a top-notch NFL caliber QB to really be great, and we were never going to recruit that guy. Everyone wants that guy, and there are just a few to go around. I think you have to accept what you are and work to minimize the limitations that you have.

[smuuth]

You are right to a point. It is ironic how their reputations were for offense and gimmicks but they won with their great defenses along with good offenses and kicking games. Fry's coord at NT and Iowa was Bill Brashier, a coach who was content to stay in that role for many years. Snyders coord was a guy by the name of Stoops as I recall. Florida didn't win their national championship with the "fun and gun in the sun" show until they lured Stoops there before he moved to OU. I think Snyder probably got tired of being the training ground for so many future successful coaches.

[StingStang]

Lot of good responses here. Clearly the consensus is very happy with JJ. Also, many thought PJ would have won quicker but had a lower ceiling. Agree, but not sure about the ceiling part. SMU has two ceilings to me: 1) how well can we recruit top QB's, and 2) how good can the defense be. Defense is different than offense in that it's much harder to scheme around talent and size gaps. You have to recruit talent. This is why Navy could average 30 pts against BCS conference opponents, but give it right back on the other end. After that first transition year at Navy, PJ was 11-13 vs the BCS, averaging 31.3 points per game. The defense was as bad as the offense was good. I'm guessing that's what 2009 has in store for SMU. I'm thinking 5-7, with some close losses, would not be too bad. Outside shot of 6 wins.

GT's ceiling will be mostly related to the defense. I think PJ will have no problems finding the skill positions....the state of Georgia is still loaded with high school programs running wishbone, single wing, flexbone, etc. PJ is still held in high regard around south Georgia due to his time at Ga. Southern. We'll average close to 30 points I think, starting in 2009. If we can hold opponents to 15-20, we'll have a chance to do some good things.

I was surprised to hear so many opinions regarding the aesthetics of the offense. Come to think of it, I heard the GT fan base make many comments of the same nature at first. But I think beating FSU, Miami, BC, Clemson, and especially UGA made the offense (and even the awful uniforms) look much better. People look at it as a plodding offense. It's actually a big play machine. GT had 67 plays of 20+ yards (20 were passes), 10 plays of 50+ yards. Now everyone is an option fanatic, because it gives us an IDENTITY, a BRAND. You think GT, you immediately identify with the triple option.

SMU will get that too, the recognition that comes with having a unique identity and brand. It's something that the fans can connect to and be proud of. In the coming years, that will prove to be as rewarding as any wins that come of it.

[rich59]

Sting Stang, What great posts and what a pleasure to read. I am an OF(old fart) and played in the split t but had a very innovative head coach(Jewel Wallace) in high school who utilised sometimes split ends and what is now called the "shotgun." Later in college I played in the split t and in the belly series, wing t. Consequently I am prejudiced. I was praying for Johnson to get the job at SMU. Thought we would be off and running very soon. For the type of player SMU had and is likely to recruit in the future, Johnson would have been ideal and the defenses in Conference USA would have had a difficult time coping with Johnson's offense, not to mention his hard nosed defense. What many people fail to grasp and I believe that JJ falls in this category, is that a ball control offense like Johnson's helps the defense and Jone's offense put a lot more pressure on the defense. I don't believe that SMU will ever to be able to field great defenses under JJ because we can't get the NFL quality type of player that would be needed to have great defense. Having said that, I am pleased with JJ overall and believe he can get SMU back to where we are competitive, just not to the level of perhaps TCU. Your points about recruiting are so well made. Johnson does not need the huge quick footed, long armed OLs that most colleges and the NFL want. The tough option QBs have few places to go today to play QB. What tickles me is a debate I have had with a local sports writer who claims that spectators will not come out to watch an option team play. What he does not understand is that winning puts fannies in the seats, not style of offense.

[SMU21TCU10]

JJ

[StingStang]

Sting Stang, What great posts and what a pleasure to read. I am an OF(old fart) and played in the split t but had a very innovative head coach(Jewel Wallace) in high school who utilised sometimes split ends and what is now called the "shotgun." Later in college I played in the split t and in the belly series, wing t. Consequently I am prejudiced. I was praying for Johnson to get the job at SMU. Thought we would be off and running very soon. For the type of player SMU had and is likely to recruit in the future, Johnson would have been ideal and the defenses in Conference USA would have had a difficult time coping with Johnson's offense, not to mention his hard nosed defense. What many people fail to grasp and I believe that JJ falls in this category, is that a ball control offense like Johnson's helps the defense and Jone's offense put a lot more pressure on the defense. I don't believe that SMU will ever to be able to field great defenses under JJ because we can't get the NFL quality type of player that would be needed to have great defense. Having said that, I am pleased with JJ overall and believe he can get SMU back to where we are competitive, just not to the level of perhaps TCU. Your points about recruiting are so well made. Johnson does not need the huge quick footed, long armed OLs that most colleges and the NFL want. The tough option QBs have few places to go today to play QB. What tickles me is a debate I have had with a local sports writer who claims that spectators will not come out to watch an option team play. What he does not understand is that winning puts fannies in the seats, not style of offense.

rich59,

Thanks for a great post. Although I am only in my early thirties, I've read a lot about offensive styles and history. You tickled me by mentioning the "belly series", something most people have probably never heard of. I am familiar with it primarily because the OF's around GT would always talk about Bobby Dodd and his famous "belly series" which he is largely credited with inventing. I don't know how far you go back, but GT and SMU played each other every year from 1950-1959, Dodd's coaching heyday. SMU had some great teams in those days, four of those games featured SMU teams ranked in the top 15. But those years were the best of times for GT. 5 of those GT teams finished the season in the top 10, 1 national championship and an "almost", reaching and winning 6 straight bowls at a time when there were but a few. If I might brag a moment longer, GT was the first school to win each of the traditional major bowls (Rose, Orange, Sugar, Cotton) accomplishing that in 1955.

To your points about style, I wonder if the nature of the Dallas fan just might be more amenable to a stylized passing attack. I am a relative newcomer, but I find Dallas to be showy and glitzy, and its people love things that are big, bold, and new. The latest hot restaurant or nightspot shines brightly for a few months, then fades away, replaced by the next greatest spot. Jerry Jones, win or lose, always leads the league in the excitement factor, and it's probably rubbed off on local football fans. For that reason June Jones might be a better fit here. I really think June will win here, but it will take a little while. By the time the June Jones era has been written and closed at SMU, I believe there will be a growing legion of Paul Johnson disciples and converts from which SMU can choose as the next coach. [You're starting to see it trickle into the pro game. Bill Belichick has studied PJ's run schemes in the offseason and is a big fan. Now we hear that the Patriots are installing a "Wildcat" option package using some former QB turned WR.]