Could be worse...

[KnuckleStang]

Call me crazy, but I agree with CP, I don't think the frogs will clobber UVA by 45. They may win, but it will be 2 touchdowns, if that. Though they would never admit it, the frogs are already looking towards Clemson. C-Ville's not an easy place to play, and them Hoos is gonna be mad and focused.

[Deep Purple]

As William and Mary is my other alma mater (I got my law degree there), I was tickled to see the Wahoos get beat by the Tribe. Groh is on the hot seat (although the man can recruit). I think losing Golden and some of his other assistants to the NFL has slowly hurt the program. Several little known William and Mary facts: The Steelers head coach, Mike Tomlin, played football at William & Mary. Lou Holtz coached at William and Mary. John Stewart and Glenn Close went to William and Mary. And Steeley Dan hated William and Mary. W&M is another school where the ABC Board got heavy handed. When I started there, they allowed people to roll kegs into the stadium. By the time I graduated, we had to smuggle in flasks because some UVA alum saw the kegs and had the timerity to ask why they couldn't do that at UVA.

It hit me today and I wondered: Who would Thomas Jefferson have rooted for in that game? He founded the University of Virginia, but he himself attended William & Mary. It was his alma mater. So would Jefferson have been clad in Cavalier orange and blue or William & Mary green and gold?

[SMU21TCU10]

hmm i did not know that about Jefferson. I would imagine, given how huge of an upset it would be for W&M to pull off a win against a BCS team in their home stadium, that he would have been cheering for the upset,

[Deep Purple]

Pretty good argument. On the other hand, if you've ever read a biography of Thomas Jefferson, William & Mary may have been his alma mater, but UVa was his late-life passion. It's hard to tell where he would have stood. I suspect he would have followed his passion and stood with UVa, but that's merely speculation. I have no evidence to back it up. It's one of those interesting questions you can think of as you fall asleep at night.

[EastStang]

If SMU played Ole Miss who would Turner root for? Similar analogy. But I would hazard a guess that Thomas Jefferson would have not even known the game was going on. He was a scientist, writer, philosopher, poet, farmer, and politician (the last of which, he was very uncomfortable). He would have been in his study reading or writing (or if you believe some, chasing slave girls) and not gotten too interested in the silliness of sports. While W&M produced many of our early leaders, it was a huge victim of the reconstruction and went bankrupt after the civil war and was taken over by the State. It was not until the 1920's that its full funding was re-established. FYI- William & Mary is still a state school and is listed among the top 20 state institutions in the USA. It has about the same number of undergrads as SMU.

[Stallion]

If Thomas Jefferson went to a Football Game between UVA and W&M it would go something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNxLxTZHKM8

[KnuckleStang]

Sorry to bring the W&M thread back, but this is just too good. jeez lighten up people...

Indian depiction prompts apology from UVa official staff reports
Published: September 16, 2009

The University of Virginia’s director of athletics has apologized for a video shown at UVa’s football game against the College of William & Mary that some found demeaning to American Indians.

In a letter published Monday in the student-run Cavalier Daily, Craig Littlepage said he regrets airing the pre-game video that depicted UVa’s mascot, “Cavman,” facing off against an American Indian representing William & Mary’s mascot, the Tribe.

“This video resurrected an old debate — and an even older stereotype — by the use of a demeaning and childish caricature of an American Indian,” Littlepage wrote. “This is a stereotype that all of us know is a sad relic of a time when many, perhaps most, Americans misunderstood American Indians and their proud heritage, largely because of media images not unlike the one in the Cavman video last week.

“We are sorry that the video insulted persons whose history and culture are essential parts of our national heritage. The video was sadly uninformed, and the Athletic Department regrets that it aired. It has been removed from the department’s Web site.”

William & Mary has been searching for a new mascot.

In early July, the school announced that it had received more than 800 suggestions, including an eagle, a wren, a phoenix, a colonial, a royal court jester, Thomas Jefferson and an asparagus stalk.

William & Mary defeated the Cavaliers, 26-14, on Sept. 5 at Scott Stadium.

[smupony94]

I like the asparagus stalk idea

[couch 'em]

Why don't they use a non-American Indian tribe as their mascot? Perhaps the Celts? Or the Visigoths? Or the Zulu, they were awesome...

As soon as all American Indian mascots will be eliminated, and people can complete forget that American Indians even exist anymore. Great plan, guys.

[KnuckleStang]

[SMUPhil]

The biggest double standard is the Florida State University situation. They make this big declaration that schools can't have Native American mascots and start cracking down, but then they let FSU off the hook. The official reason is that FSU has permission from the Seminole tribe to use their name (read: FSU must be paying boatloads to the Seminole tribe, plus the Seminoles have their act together and probably realize this is free/good publicity for them and their Seminole Hard Rock Casino).

Oh ok, so that's the precedent now? So if W&M gets permission from a "tribe", can they keep their name? If Central Michigan gets the Chippewas on board, can they keep the mascot? Such BS from the NCAA... who is headquartered in INDIANapolis, INDIANa. Hmm, but that's just the city's name, right?

And it's a good thing we got rid of negative stereotypes like "Braves".

[jtstang]

I like the asparagus stalk idea

You're a vegist.

[smupony94]

I like the asparagus stalk idea

You're a vegist.

Nope - a Vagiterian

[EastStang]

Why don't they use a non-American Indian tribe as their mascot? Perhaps the Celts? Or the Visigoths? Or the Zulu, they were awesome...

As soon as all American Indian mascots will be eliminated, and people can complete forget that American Indians even exist anymore. Great plan, guys.

I submitted a Turd and a Big [deleted] (since I am an alumnus I had the email address). The funny thing in all this is that William & Mary was chartered to teach the "indiginous peoples of Virginia Colony". Guess who the Indiginous peoples of the Virginia Colony were? American Indians. Thus, when the school took up sports, it took on the nickname Indians in honor of its history (albeit they did have a logo that look suspiciously like the Cleveland Indians logo). Then they got PC and changed their name to the "Tribe" but left a feather in their logo and had a person in Indian garb as their mascot. The NCAA couldn't swallow that (maybe other things but that's another story) so they told W&M that they had to lose the logo for forfeit the right to host NCAA tournaments. Given that W&M has hosted 1-AA playoff games, NCAA soccer playoff games, NCAA baseball playoff games, NCAA golf regionals, they opted to change the logo. Having a Viking or a Celt would of course be insensitive to Irish and Scandanavian immigrants. Having an animal mascot might be insensitive to animal lovers. So, I think they'll end up with some sort of noid type thing or my suggestion (which was shamelessly taken from South Park).

[jtstang]

I like the asparagus stalk idea

You're a vegist.

Nope - a Vagiterian

Ahh, a meat eater then.