Stallion wrote:you mean that we just can't hope to ever compete with TCU? Because they've been consistently doing it for 12 years now from Day 1 when Franchione and then Patterson was hired. They compete with and beat Big 12 and other BCS schools for about 65-70% of their recruits. That's why they win consistently-they recruit better than just about every team on their schedule.
Nope, I never said that we can't hope to compete with TCU for recruits; I think we will but we'll have to start winning a few games first.
Some big differences in the two programs vis a vis the time Franchione took over versus when JJ took over:
-When Franchione took over, their program wasn't nearly as bad as ours was when JJ took over (they went to the Independence Bowl in 1994 with Pat Sullivan and finished near the top of the SWC. sure he finished poorly but TCU's program had recent success. we haven't had any in 25 years.
-Franchione also got a huge boost from getting LT, a once in a generation type of player at a school like TCU (think of Adrian Peterson playing at SMU). He would have gone to UT or Oklahoma had he not been an academic question.
hmm I could have sworn TCU was 1-10 the year Franchione took over. He had immediate recruiting success. I'm not talking about the guys he had on campus-I'm talking about on the recruiting trail. It didn't take him 3 years to ramp up the recruiting. And Franchione had a lot lower profile than June Jones.
"With a quarter of a tank of gas, we can get everything we need right here in DFW." -SMU Head Coach Chad Morris
When momentum starts rolling downhill in recruiting-WATCH OUT.
Stallion wrote:hmm I could have sworn TCU was 1-10 the year Franchione took over. He had immediate recruiting success. I'm not talking about the guys he had on campus-I'm talking about on the recruiting trail. It didn't take him 3 years to ramp up the recruiting. And Franchione had a lot lower profile than June Jones.
yea they had 1 win before he got there in 98 (it was against us of course). went 7-5 his first year and went to sun bowl. got LT the following year
Stallion wrote:hmm I could have sworn TCU was 1-10 the year Franchione took over
keep reading and you would have seen this: "sure he (Pat Sullivan) finished poorly but TCU's program had recent success. we haven't had any in 25 years." TCU had been to a bowl game just a few years before Franchione got there, we've been a laughingstock for 25 years...IN MY OPINION, that's a much bigger hurdle to overcome than what Franchione encountered. no big deal, Taylor Reed looked great
Of course, the wild card in all of this is how our academic restrictions have changed to the point where we appear to have more flexibility pursuing the same type of kids TCU and others can. TCU and others had that advantage over us for years.
Remember how we couldn't even get a kid on campus for a visit if he didn't meet requirements or something like that?
The real question is whether we can land them. That's where we're going to have to have great salesmanship from our coaches and have some results to get kids that we may have otherwise had no shot at.
LT and many others were recruited by Sullivan-not talking about them-I'm talking about the recruits Franchione signed immediately after a 1-10 season. What TCU shows though is sometimes those miracle seasons aren't always because of the genuis new coach-as many times as not its a sign of the solid foundation in recruiting laid by the fired and disgraced predecessor. Most fans and predecessors don't understand how it takes 4-5 years to actually build a program. See also Mississippi.
"With a quarter of a tank of gas, we can get everything we need right here in DFW." -SMU Head Coach Chad Morris
When momentum starts rolling downhill in recruiting-WATCH OUT.
Stallion wrote:hmm I could have sworn TCU was 1-10 the year Franchione took over. He had immediate recruiting success. I'm not talking about the guys he had on campus-I'm talking about on the recruiting trail. It didn't take him 3 years to ramp up the recruiting. And Franchione had a lot lower profile than June Jones.
uh huh and where exactly is dennis nowadays stallion? still killing the A&M program? he was no genius, perhaps his success was a fluke since he couldn't repeat it, where as JJ is well on his way to turning yet another program around...
"well on his way". After one victory against a Division 1A team in 2 years. Look I don't think anybody is disputing that June Jones under current conditions should be able to get SMU to a bowl game in this conference sooner or later. A team in CUSA can easily make a bowl by beating teams that are in the bottom 30% of the Sagarin Ratings. CUSA has 8 teams rated 100 or above in the Sagarin Ratings plus SFA and WSU. Is that a strong team or great scheduling? SMU has essentially removed just about every academic obstacle there is to building a program. There is simply no reason SMU can't compete in CUSA any more. NONE. But to accomplish what TCU has done-to be Top 25 and a consistent top program and to beat about 20 BCS programs in 10-12 years with a winning percentage of 65-70% agaiinst BCS programs, there is going to have to be a substantial upgrade in recruiting. As for Franchione-he has rebuilt as many programs as just about anyone you'll find in college football other than probably Lou Holtz
"With a quarter of a tank of gas, we can get everything we need right here in DFW." -SMU Head Coach Chad Morris
When momentum starts rolling downhill in recruiting-WATCH OUT.
Stallion wrote:"well on his way". After one victory against a Division 1A team in 2 years. Look I don't think anybody is disputing that June Jones under current conditions should be able to get SMU to a bowl game in this conference sooner or later. A team in CUSA can easily make a bowl by beating teams that are in the bottom 30% of the Sagarin Ratings. CUSA has 8 teams rated 100 or above in the Sagarin Ratings plus SFA and WSU. Is that a strong team or great scheduling? SMU has essentially removed just about every academic obstacle there is to building a program. There is simply no reason SMU can't compete in CUSA any more. NONE. But to accomplish what TCU has done-to be Top 25 and a consistent top program and to beat about 20 BCS programs in 10-12 years with a winning percentage of 65-70% agaiinst BCS programs, there is going to have to be a substantial upgrade in recruiting. As for Franchione-he has rebuilt as many programs as just about anyone you'll find in college football other than probably Lou Holtz
I would go talk to JJ or Doherty about that comment. We still have academic restrictions that our competitors do not. I don't have documented proof, but I know our coaches have said it recently.
Stallion wrote:"well on his way". After one victory against a Division 1A team in 2 years. Look I don't think anybody is disputing that June Jones under current conditions should be able to get SMU to a bowl game in this conference sooner or later. A team in CUSA can easily make a bowl by beating teams that are in the bottom 30% of the Sagarin Ratings. CUSA has 8 teams rated 100 or above in the Sagarin Ratings plus SFA and WSU. Is that a strong team or great scheduling? SMU has essentially removed just about every academic obstacle there is to building a program. There is simply no reason SMU can't compete in CUSA any more. NONE. But to accomplish what TCU has done-to be Top 25 and a consistent top program and to beat about 20 BCS programs in 10-12 years with a winning percentage of 65-70% agaiinst BCS programs, there is going to have to be a substantial upgrade in recruiting. As for Franchione-he has rebuilt as many programs as just about anyone you'll find in college football other than probably Lou Holtz
I can't disagree with anything you just said although it somewhat contradicts what you said earlier. Anyway, part of the problem is that a lot of SMU fans don't give TCU's program the credit it deserves (they should have beaten Utah at Utah last year and Utah killed Alabama).
Stallion wrote:LT and many others were recruited by Sullivan-not talking about them-I'm talking about the recruits Franchione signed immediately after a 1-10 season. What TCU shows though is sometimes those miracle seasons aren't always because of the genuis new coach-as many times as not its a sign of the solid foundation in recruiting laid by the fired and disgraced predecessor. Most fans and predecessors don't understand how it takes 4-5 years to actually build a program. See also Mississippi.
I think one factor you gotta consider here is some head coaches are good recruiters, some are good game day coaches and some are both. Ed Orgeron is a great recruiter but you can see based on his record not the best coach. I dont think he puts up the wins that Houston Nutt did last year and will do this year with the same quad that he, Orgeron, built.
We must constantly remind ourselves that it takes time to rebuild a bad program. I am constantly looking at the Rutgers program with a great coach and the 7 years it took him to finally get things turned around and start recruiting top level talent. Rutgers has the entire state of NJ with excellent Div I talent with no other Div I schools and it was/is a tough sell to keep kids at home while raiding Florida to make progress. Finally, huge crowds, good kids and alum expectations. BYU has been down for a period and are just returning to their historical level. Check out the number of 5 star recruits they have for 2010 now that they are winning again. JJ will need at least 4 years to start making things happen and get enough quality to compete and win. Only at that time will the top kids start taking an interest in SMU. Time, hard work and a little luck will be necessary before things will happen.
Stallion wrote:you mean that we just can't hope to ever compete with TCU? Because they've been consistently doing it for 12 years now from Day 1 when Franchione and then Patterson was hired. They compete with and beat Big 12 and other BCS schools for about 65-70% of their recruits. That's why they win consistently-they recruit better than just about every team on their schedule.
I think you can make the argument that they have under-recruited yet outperformed the average Big 12 team in the last decade.
