Doudney

[The CPC]

Thats why I'm asking for a more detailed answer, if half his credits wouldnt transfer, coming here wouldnt have even been an option. You dont actually know, so butt out.
I'm not asking for one of your vague rants, I'm trying to find out what actually happened. Thats how problems get solved, not by whining about them.

[SoCal_Pony]

In Tech Dad’s own words..”I think he would have come to SMU if the credits weren't a problem”.

What else can we conclude from that statement other than our administration was the problem!

[The CPC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SoCal_Pony:
<B>In Tech Dad’s own words..”I think he would have come to SMU if the credits weren't a problem”.

What else can we conclude from that statement other than our administration was the problem!</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You cant conclude anything at all. He also says that he didnt ask Nathan, so he doesnt know. Thinking isnt knowing. Jumping to a conclusion without sufficient data is a mistake. Thats why we need to ask for more information.

[SoCal_Pony]

CPC,

If you are going to do an investigation, I’m sure it will be informative. It would be interesting to find out specifically how many credits SMU would accept versus Gonzaga.
However, I do not base my opinion of SMU’s admission policy one particular athlete or situation, but rather on a 15 year body of work, which in my view is abysmal.

Look at Stallion’s post concerning the WAC BB signees this year. Absent us and Rice, 75% are JC/CC transfers. And we know this is not an anomaly but the continuation of a policy that has existed for years.

Can Bennett recruit JCs? Yes. Do we desperately need JC OL/DL help this year? Yes. Did we sign any, or to the best of my knowledge, make any serious attempt to? No.

Since I assume our athletic department would enjoy competing on a more equal footing, I must blame our administration.

Anyway, do your investigation; normally your reports are interesting and amusing. Good Luck.

[PerunaPunch]

Actually, Bennet signed one heck of a JC football recruit in Bobby Chase this year. But I think (IMHO) Chase fits the mold of the type of student athlete our coaches are looking for - JC or not.

He's young (so he'll have almost a full allotment of eligibility), he's an impact player (so that the use of a scholarship will produce tangible positive results), and perhaps most importantly, the kid has a good chance of graduating.

Why Dement hasn't done something along those lines is a question I'm not qualified to answer. But the blanket statement that SMU doesn't pursue JCs when the right situation presents itself is erroneous.

[This message has been edited by PerunaPunch (edited 06-17-2003).]

[This message has been edited by PerunaPunch (edited 06-17-2003).]

[Stallion]

all reports I've heard is that Bobby Chase is or will be a full qualifier by the end of the summer-what does that add to the discussion on JC recruits. Hey if you want to argue that SMU should only admit high quality students that's OK-just don't sit here and claim that SMU has COMMITTED to compete with its rivals and opponents-we haven't. Mike Dement is handicapped tremendously in competing against the schools on our schedule including the WAC where JC recruits outnumber HS recruits 2 to 1 this year, TCU who has at least 2 JC recruits this year, Baylor who had 4 JC recruits last year, Texas Tech under Knight who has a boat full of JC recruits, OU under Tubbs who has 7 JC recruits and just about every team we play. As for this school SMU has not had a scholarship player in FB or BB in at least the last 7-8 recruiting classes in either sport who was not a full-qualifier out of high school. That's approximately the last 200 athlete's we've signed. I'm not blind enough not to draw conclusions from that fact like some of the rest of you.

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 06-17-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 06-17-2003).]

[Tech Dad]

hey didn't mean to start a war. Here is what I do know. Nathan was a Radio/TV/Media major. I apologize but not sure if SMU has anything like it. He was working for one of the TV stations in Lubbock as a reporter, and even though he wasn't going to come back to Tech basketball, they asked him to continue.

The comment about "half his credits" not being accepted came from a relative of Nathan's. So not sure if that was exact, but it was enough for him to stop considering SMU

Let me tell you this, if you get to see Nathan play in a pickup game or just practice shooting, you can see why UCLA is still after him hard and trying to make him change his mind on Gonzaga.

You all have a great school, and I went to all the football home games last year. My father-in-law was captain in the early 50's.
My opinion is that I wish there was a way to make it easier for some of these guys to get in or transfer. My brother went to Duke, and I can tell you if they made all the basketball players have the same acceptance requirements as all the other students, they wouldn't be the power they are today. Also exceptions are made. Case in point a few years ago my boss's son wanted to go to SMU. He's a non-athlete. His grades were poor, actually he would have been luck to get into UTA. Through some business connections, I think the new Dean of the Business school at the time came from the University of Georgia, he was able to get him accepted. My only point is 10-15 guys a year who might be below acceptance standards won't harm any reputation, and the on the field glory will do more good. Just my opinion..thanks

[Roach]

And, it should be pointed out, Coach Bennett hasn't signed Bobby Chase to anything. Reports indicate that B.Chase has COMMITTED to play at SMU, but until Feb. 4, nothing is a done deal. Bobby and Coach Bennett might have a verbal/handshake agreement that he'll play for the Ponies, but nothing can be signed until February.

[The CPC]

Thanks Stallion, but a couple of your conclusions have already turned out to be wrong, havent they? You've already decided what you want the answers to be, so you jump on anything that might vaguely support your conclusion, and anything that doesnt support you suddenly doesnt matter, anymore. Sorry, but if we want a real answer that just isnt good enough.

This brings us back around to the question CPC asked in another thread, what happened between the Dement and Shumate eras? It wasnt the DP, that was too long ago. It wasnt the school dropping the PE department, that happened early in Shumates tenure. Was it something that coincided with Copelands arrival? He came in at the end of Shumates last season, and did the hiring/firing between the 2 coaches. This is the real question, and we wont find an answer if people refuse to even look for it, because they're happy with conclusions they've already made.

Incidentally, 6 years ago the womens basketball team signed 2 JC transfers, neither of whom was a full qualifier out of high school. Both were foriegn players who went straight to JC when they came to America. That was the last time any of SMU's teams signed someone who wasnt a high school qualifier.

[EastStang]

One thing to keep in mind with all of this is that next year we will have a pretty veteran starting team and JUCO's on other teams should not have any impact on us at all unless injuries deplete our line-up. BHop needs to show the world what he can do if he wants an NBA contract.

[gostangs]

Of COURSE the other teams JUCO's will have an effect on us - they will help beat us - Stallion is right on this one - we have to change this policy or remain noncompetitive - I'm not saying build our team on them like some others do, but not allowing any is a joke. We won't get where we need to in BBall without changing this - plain and simple. And we won't get where we need to athletically without strong BBall

[cowboypony]

Ah, yet another plug for SMU baseball. Damn those recruiting restrictions.

[EastStang]

Excuse me, but if we have mostly juniors and seniors who have played Div. 1 basketball (for 3-4 years)playing against junior JUCO transfers, are you telling me that we're at a disadvantage?

[Stallion]

no he's not saying we are at a disadvantage this year-- only that our opponents are at an advantage every year. Assuming you have a pool of players including both JC and HS players. You get first choice to pick your team. SMU could only pick from the HS pool while the other school may have a much larger pool of JC players to choose from that may very well be better than the high school. Whether the HS Players or JUCO Player is better would be choosen by your teams coach who presumably is in the best position to judge the needs of his program not by an administrative rule which limits you from recruiting certain players in the pool. As for the experience factor it is rare that SMU would ever have an experience edge on any team that relies on JCs. Do the math-SMU signs 4 freshman each year. Team B signs 1 freshman and 3 JUCOs. In this scenario SMU would have 7-8 underclassmen being Freshman and Sophmores while Team B might only have 2 underclassman-that's why signing mature and older JUCOs is such an advantage. Its also a factor in why our FB team always seems so inexperienced and we have gotten pushed around physically by teams that load up on JUCOs.

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 06-20-2003).]

[The CPC]

During a break in the action last night at the Global Games CPC had a chance to chat with a few coaches, both from SMU and otherwise. Here are a few tidbits gleaned from those conversations that would be of interest.

SMU basketball assistant coach Crawford Coleman said that Doudney would have lost 6-8 hours that wouldnt transfer to SMU, the equivalent of 2-3 classes. He was admitted to SMU and could have enrolled if he had chosen to. An AAU coach who says he spoke to Doudney said he chose Gonzaga because of its record of success in the NCAA tournament, and its offensive emphasis on perimeter shooters.

Foy Munlin is currently enrolled in summer school at a junior college. His JC credits will transfer to SMU and he will enroll at SMU in the fall. He'll pay his own way for the fall semester, then be on scholarship in the spring. He'll be eligible to play in the fall of 2004, and have 2 years left.

CPC will now sit back and wait to see the next round of conclusion jumping. This should be good.