Old Band Guy Speaks (Warning - A Very Long Post)

[WSGJ]

I may be way off base here, but the complaining about the (little m) reminds me of the all the people that complained about the amount of money June Jones signed for. Wasn't it one of the professors (Spanish maybe) that had a big problem with it. He was upset because he only made $30,000 or so. Should the school not have taken the money from the Circle of Champions unless they also funded a pay raise for certain professors?

Mrs. Pickens can choose to donate her money however she sees fit. Is it grandstanding for her foundation? Probably. Who's to say this is the only money she or her husband plan on donating to SMU. They are getting up there in age and donate to many causes. Why alienate a potential donor with big money just because she wants to send a couple of horses to Hawaii? Should the school turn down the money unless she pays for the whole band to go?

[Peruna_Ate_My_Rolex]

As a Meadows school of the Arts employee, I have heard the pros and cons of the band and the relationship to the Arts school for years. I am not involved in any of those decisions, just an available ear. I like the band and bands at athletic events, but feel that due to some long ago contentious relationships with other campus entities, whether athletics or Meadows, the Mustang Band, has been forced into a bunker mentality due to these challenges. Unfortunately, the intense music curriculum does not allow music majors time for the Mustang Band. These challenging circumstances has caused The Mustang Band to repond negatively to outside suggestions, and these responses to what the band offers the University has almost marginalized it. Not a fault of the directors or musicians, but a cultural shift. These restraints have not allowed it, (or many other bands for that matter) to respond to the continually changing landscape in college football ( a thesis opportunity is seen)

One of our alumni at Meadows wrote a dynamic (but alas, recorded only) fight anthem that could get the crowd in a feverish pitch for the team, but isn't used partly because the band has maintained an archaic attitude about music at football games, one more suited for leather helmets and 2-way players. Granted, music could be argued as being better for a band back then.

I have determined that the SMU fanbase as it appears on this website is much more conservative than I am, hence my disagreements on uniforms, the shetland, music choices and other items ad nauseum. I accept that and find no real fault with traditionalist.

Despite our areas of disagreements, I value your opinion because it come from a love for the University. Those of us who want to see change have no less love for the University, just a different vision. The proper vision is ultimately the one that creates the most viable opportunity for success.

When I was in school, Meadows had no love for Mustang Band. In fact, Jack Delaney offered me a scholarship just so I wouldn't be on the field with the Mustang Band. He could care less if I ever played a note in his precious ensemble, he just didn't want me playing with them. Of course, I told him no thanks and walked out of his office and never talked to him again. From my recollection, there were people over there that wanted to get their grubby little paws on the band just so that they could make it their little toy. When they had their opportunity to take over the program, they were just salivating...until Dean Brandt saw how much it was going to cost and decided to pass. I'm very glad she did.

[Diamond Girl]

There's a Mustang Band alumnus who was a music major. His performance instructor hated the Mustang Band and wanted this bandsman to quit the band. In addition, all this alumnus ever heard was negativity toward the band. This person is now professor of composition at a large private university in California. He has such negative feelings toward SMU due to his experience at Meadows he doesn't even list receiving his BA from SMU on his CV.

[The Spaz]

I may be way off base here, but the complaining about the (little m) reminds me of the all the people that complained about the amount of money June Jones signed for. Wasn't it one of the professors (Spanish maybe) that had a big problem with it. He was upset because he only made $30,000 or so. Should the school not have taken the money from the Circle of Champions unless they also funded a pay raise for certain professors?

Mrs. Pickens can choose to donate her money however she sees fit. Is it grandstanding for her foundation? Probably. Who's to say this is the only money she or her husband plan on donating to SMU. They are getting up there in age and donate to many causes. Why alienate a potential donor with big money just because she wants to send a couple of horses to Hawaii? Should the school turn down the money unless she pays for the whole band to go?

Because I think there's something to be said about loyalty and tradition, and I don't think money means you can do whatever you want. I feel like Turner and Orsini would prance naked, hand-in-hand, through the main quad fountain if anybody dropped enough money for them to do so. And while I'm all about selling out personally (FYI, rich alums, I would do that for probably less than you think...), I have a higher standard for SMU. We already have a reputation of putting money before just about anything else. I don't need to see that reflected by two big ole horses every time I go to a game. Find somewhere else to keep your toys, not on my field.

[mrydel]

She is not donating any money. She is just paying to mail two beaten down horses to Hawaii. I agree she has every right to do so but let's not make this out to be a big donation deal. We went to her and asked for the horses.

[PonyTime]

Anyone who thinks that an athletic department that just recently laid off most of their marketing staff is going to ante up to send the band to Hawaii is dreaming.

While I would LOVE for this to be the case - I really don't think it will happen outside of a large donation from someone.

In my opinion - Those who deserve most to be at that game are not the current band members - but the band alumni from the past 20+ years - the ones who toiled and lived through the years after years of losing seasons.

Just my opinion (and I am not a former band member).

[ponyte]

. Medeleine Pickens' organization is a valuable and necessary attempt to save wild Mustangs.

Point of clarification. There are no wild mustangs in the US. There are no wild horses in the world save one species.

There are only feral horses or domesticated horses in this country. Madeleine Pickens' organization works to preserve feral mustangs.

Perhaps the difficulties the band faces are not creations of its own but due to its place within the SMU organization. From what I gather through various responses on this thread, the band is somewhat of an oddity in that it doesn't fit with a more recognized department in the university. It is somewhat isolated without an organization with greater resources to support it.

The athletic department can't be expected to give the band direction or financial support as the band isn't part of the athletic departments' charge. The same is true for the Meadows School of Arts. And it could be said for any other department. YEt the greatest resources are at the department level, not the student activities level. Departments can fund raise and prioritize based on their goals. The student activities area is less capable of these activities and allocation of resources.

Perhaps the band needs to have support by being placed into a specific department within the school that can better nurture it and support it.

As it is, it seems the band is without support. Any other department can devote scholarship money and other resources to further its goals. Sounds like the band doesn't enjoy that type of support cause it is part of the university that doesn't have that capability. Obviously one of the reasons the band is what it is is because it hasn't had to be a part of a larger department. This level of independence has a price and that price is less organizational support.

I love the band and I am so thankful that somebody and SMU has worked to increase the size of the band in recent years. And I love the dedication not just at athletic events but from the band members themselves around campus. And I want the band to succeed and be an important part of SMU. And I fear that the bands woes for several decades is more to the organization of which the band is a part and not due to individuals.

Put pressure on the administration to place more resources into the band and there may be serious investigation by the university to appropriately recognize the band and its contributions within the organization.

[mrydel]

I will wager that Jones makes arrangements for the Hawaii band to learn our fight song and represent SMU.

[ponyte]

Instead of the usual bickering and arguing over who killed who, would not we be better organizing our efforts to raise money for the band to travel to any bowl? And if we don't get a bid, bank the cash for the day we do?

The athletic department just pulled off, in a short period of time, a package to put 10,000 kids in the stands over TG weekend.

Could not the same be done by the band?

Guys like me can't travel to Hawaii but I could donate money for our band to go. Market the idea and get some area of SMU to support it (one would need email list, a knowledge of high probably donors, a message that makes one feel their donation is appreciated and will be of some benefit to them, a way to account for the money and acknowledge those that give, etc.)

If the athletic department can pull off what it has this year to get fans in the stands for Tulane, we can do the same for the band for one game.

[GallopingGuy]

What we have here is a difference of opinion. We should all repect each others viewpoint on these issues. Slanderous talk regarding our athletic director, our coach and Madeleine Pickens should not be tolerated. With your negative remarks, you diminish your argument to a petulent rant. Medeleine Pickens' organization is a valuable and necessary attempt to save wild Mustangs. I take great umbrage in negative discussion about someone's noble attempt on our behalf to save our mascot (the real ones.)

I'm a big fan of the word "umbrage," but the only reason to use it on a forum about SMU football is to try to impress everyone with how smart and/or educated you are. If that's your goal, I suggest you start by spelling "respect" and "petulant" correctly.

As a Meadows school of the Arts employee, I have heard the pros and cons of the band and the relationship to the Arts school for years. I am not involved in any of those decisions, just an available ear. I like the band and bands at athletic events, but feel that due to some long ago contentious relationships with other campus entities, whether athletics or Meadows, the Mustang Band, has been forced into a bunker mentality due to these challenges. Unfortunately, the intense music curriculum does not allow music majors time for the Mustang Band. These challenging circumstances has caused The Mustang Band to repond negatively to outside suggestions, and these responses to what the band offers the University has almost marginalized it. Not a fault of the directors or musicians, but a cultural shift. These restraints have not allowed it, (or many other bands for that matter) to respond to the continually changing landscape in college football ( a thesis opportunity is seen)

Another writing tip: Avoid passive voice. "A thesis opportunity is seen?" Really?

But I digress. As an ex-bandsman myself, I can assure you that "the intense music curriculum" does, in fact, allow music majors time for the Mustang Band if they choose to find said time. I know this because I knew music majors in the band who were continually encouraged to leave because it would, as my freshman brother The Spaz has already noted, ruin their lips and/or style of playing. I also know that some teachers of certain instruments would refuse to teach students if they were in the Mustang Band, which forced students who were studying those instruments and were interested in joining the band to make a decision: Would they continue studying their instrument at Meadows or would they join the band?

So you're right. We have been forced into a bunker mentality. And it doesn't help that the band hall is, essentially, a glorified bunker.

One of our alumni at Meadows wrote a dynamic (but alas, recorded only) fight anthem that could get the crowd in a feverish pitch for the team, but isn't used partly because the band has maintained an archaic attitude about music at football games, one more suited for leather helmets and 2-way players. Granted, music could be argued as being better for a band back then.

The new "fight anthem" isn't used because it's bad. That said, if you think a new "fight anthem" is going to get the crowd in a feverish pitch for the team, you obviously don't understand how football works. If the team is playing well, people will get excited about the team no matter what the band is playing when they come out. If the team is playing poorly, people won't get excited no matter what the band is playing. The Mustang Band plays great music, and there have certainly been people over the last two and a half decades who have come to football games to see the band more than the football team, given the quality of the product on the field... but that's (thankfully) starting to change. I, for one, am happy to see that happening. But those of us that have been faithfully supporting this team through terrible (and even winless) seasons are quite happy with Peruna and Pony Battle Cry, thank you.

I have determined that the SMU fanbase as it appears on this website is much more conservative than I am, hence my disagreements on uniforms, the shetland, music choices and other items ad nauseum. I accept that and find no real fault with traditionalist.

Despite our areas of disagreements, I value your opinion because it come from a love for the University. Those of us who want to see change have no less love for the University, just a different vision. The proper vision is ultimately the one that creates the most viable opportunity for success.

Here's the bottom line: Do you love SMU because of what it is, or what you want it to be? If it's the latter, you basically sound like the kind of woman that falls for a terrible guy and explains it to her friends by saying "I can change him!"

Meanwhile, there are those of us who love SMU for what it was and is, who have been here all along because we supported SMU football during the leanest of the lean years, and who take offense (or umbrage, if you prefer) at the suggestion that SMU needs to change traditions like our mascot and our fight songs to create "the most viable opportunity for success." Aggies are an odd bunch, but if there's one thing SMU could learn from them -- and just to be clear, SMU Cyclist, I'm using metonymy here, because I'm actually referring to the people associated with the university rather than the university itself -- it's how to love your school and the traditions that make your school unique.

[SmooBoy]

I will wager that Jones makes arrangements for the Hawaii band to learn our fight song and represent SMU.

Pony Battle Cry will sound awful on ukuleles and coconut drums.

[ponyte]

I will wager that Jones makes arrangements for the Hawaii band to learn our fight song and represent SMU.

Pony Battle Cry will sound awful on ukuleles and coconut drums.

If we can't find a way to finance the bands' trip, I'll take it. And since we boast of one of the best B-schools in the Union (Cox), I have every faith that we can find a way to finance anything!

[Scoops]

It is under the University - Judith Banes is the head of this area

Not true, at least as far as cheerleading. That was moved this year to fall under the jurisdiction of the athletic department, and has an administrator, just like any other sport does. For those who are all fired up about the new Mustangs allegedly being sent to Hawaii, remember that most stories/rumors about that happening involve a private donor paying for the trip. Maybe a similarly enthusiastic band donor will need to be found as well, if the school doesn't send the band out there because of budgetary restrictions.

[Scoops]

Taking the Mustangs to the Bowl game is all about national publicity for the plight of Mustangs and free advertisement for the Wild Horse Foundation, a noble cause. It has nothing to do with Peruna who I also hope can make the trip along with the Band. Why some of you guys constantly attempt to demonize these beautiful innocent horses who are the namesake for the SMU athletic teams is something I will never understand.

I agree w/ Bill.

So do I

[DallasDiehard]

The Mustang Band still plays in the worst rehearsal hall in the USA. M Band plays under a swimming pool with supports about to crumble. Many former M Band members suffer from loss of hearing from playing in that rathole under the Natatorium. Event though it has no money, no rehearsal venue, lack of support from many of the SMU Community including the AD Dept headed by the mob boss, STEVE ORSINI, the MUSTANG BAND CONTINUES TO BE 'THE PRIDE OF DALLAS," "THE HUB OF SMU SPIRIT," AND "THE BEST DRESSED BAND IN THE LAND."

I might add "... and, the horse you rode in on". Agree with everything in the post and at the risk of piling on, we need a NEW NATORATIUM for the Mens' and Women's Swimming and Diving Teams, permitting The Hub of SMU Spirit to get their long deserved rehearsal hall.

Our ability to be Div. 1 with the both the SMU Band and Swimming Teams depends on investing in the facilities and organizations that will represent us a Top 25 University in all we do. The practical life cycle for Perkins Natatorium expired expired shortly after the sixties. The structure is probably 70-80 years old.

Thanks for the post. Loved it.

Yup, the natatorium is old and outdated.
Yet Coach Collins and Coach Sinnott and Coach Stillson annually put together teams that compete for (and win) conference titles and make strong showings at the NCAA Championships, and they are the leaders of the fundraising efforts to build a new facility. Year in and year out, they never complain, the play the hand they're dealt and they continue to win. Kudos to the swimming and diving programs.