SMU Beaten By Academic Risks....

[Stallion]

let me fill you in. Last year 66% of the WAC recruits not including SMU and Rice were JC players. This doesn't include the non-qualifiers and partial qualifiers that we've had to deal with at schools like Fresno, Louisiana Tech and SJSU. I invite you to do a little research on this subject. the fact is that just about every WAC championship team has relied heavily on these academic risks which despite your conjecture are easily more plentiful in BB than FB. I'm serious go check the rosters of the WAC teams, the Texas Tech's, The Baylors, the OSUs , the OUs, the Louisiana Tech, Hawaii, UTEP, SJSU, Boise St, New Mexico, UNLV, Arkansas, TCU et al. Even the Tulsa program has been built on selective but VERY SUCCESSFUL use of JUCOs-Tulsa is the Model that I think we should use-1-2 JUCOs a year. Even schools like UTAH with Reggie Miller, a non-qualifier could not have achieved their stature without these types of players. There is simply no dispute that each and every one of those schools which Dement has competed against, without the luxury of signing these types of players, could not have been near as competitive without these academic risks. You can deal with or ignore it but it is a fact.

<small>[ 01-25-2004, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: Stallion ]</small>

[Diehard Pony]

Stallion,

Your posts are filled with stats / data that all make sense, and are well founded. Very few would argue with you on that.

However, coaching is a very important part of the puzzle that you ignore in your posts. For anybody who has been present for a fair number of actual contests (and I certainly merit that distinction), Coach Dement consistently, but not without exception, falls incredibly short of the bar of success.

While I support your basic premise of a huge flaw in the model, it does not diminish the very poor performances by Copeland (for a career) and for Dement, particularly this year.

A change is merited despite our continuation of a flawed model which I pray will be repaired.

[OldPony]

Is it possible that Dement's coaching is related to things he has to do because he doesn't have the talent that his competitors do? I hear a lot on this board about his zone defense. You can't run a man if you don't have athletes who are as big and quick as the competition. We have never had the depth to run an uptempo game. Keep blaming Dement. It distracts from the real problem.

[CoxSMU]

Unfortunately, Stallion, I don't have the time to research every team. What I do have time to do is catch a few games on the weekends. I am convinced that we could, at least, be the number three OR EVEN FOUR team in the WAC. We're not talking about the ACC here. This is a down year for the WAC with Tulsa and Fresno, who usually garner a little National Attention, not playing as they usually do.

Anyone remember our 2000-2001 squad? They were 18-6 going into the final stretch and then lost 6 games straight. That team had a solid, solid roster. Jeryll Sasser, Quinton Ross, Damon Hancock, along with some solid freshmen in Kris Lowe and Voc Atkins. I ask you....Where would that team have been if Bobby Knight had been running the X's and O's for us? We would have had a NCAA birth, if not a NIT birth. Our team this year doesn't have the talent that year did, but we do have enough talent to make some WAC noise....

What I noticed that year and then this year again is that there is no team play. It seems like every year there is one player who can score and then the rest fill in every now and then. Damon's senior year, he was a scoring machine. But did we do? 15-14, barely over .500. It's ridiculous. I am not saying that we should have been 20-10 every year, but give me a break. We should have had, at least, a 22 win year in 2000-2001 and an 18 year win in 2001-2002. I am getting tired of watching our collapses, getting run over, GETTING SQUASHED BY 40 POINTS by a team not in the ACC or any other big conference, and the worst thing I see...a misuse of talent.

<small>[ 01-26-2004, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: CoxSMU ]</small>

[Stallion]

hey that's fine-you are a casual observer of the situation who probably goes to at least a majority of the games-nothing wrong with that-95% of those calling for Dement, Bennett, Cavan, Rossley, Shumate and Gregg to be fired are the same type of fans. If you don't know what other teams are doing who Dement is competing against then I submit you and all the other experts aren't qualified to judge Dements performance considering the competitive imbalance. Then you give me Bobby Knight as an example of a Coach that would do better with this talent than Dement. You just don't get it. HALF OF BOBBY KNIGHT's team are JUCOs or other academic risks.

<small>[ 01-26-2004, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: Stallion ]</small>

[OldPony]

Didn't we beat TT? Fire Bobby Knight.

[Pony_Fan]

That was a completely different team OP - this team would get blown out by Tech right now.

[OldPony]

So why is it a different team? They were doing it Dement's way and winning. All of a sudden they get beat by 30+ at OSU and quit playing hard or doing anything any coach's way. Is this Dement or is it something else? I've never seen a team so obviously quit. Not under Dement nor any other coach. The lack of heart in this group amazes me.

[Pony_Fan]

That is the 10,000 dollar question - I wish I knew.

[HighfalutinHorse]

OP..I'm with you. WIN 3 out of 4 with a big juicy W over Tech...WIN Purdue's Touney, not to mention going 4 W's, one L in THAT stretch...BLOW OUT at OSU, but THAT was followed by a NICE win over Tulsa....Then the funkiness starts?? Was it the road? I don't get it....NOT sure Dement is such a complete "ding dong" as most on the board want to say...W's over Tech and Purdue, who "coached" those games? I think we have a player leadership issue, some internal issues between the fellas...Dement needs to stay...maybe some of these players need to go..?

[CoxSMU]

Originally posted by Stallion:
hey that's fine-you are a casual observer of the situation who probably goes to at least a majority of the games-nothing wrong with that-95% of those calling for Dement, Bennett, Cavan, Rossley, Shumate and Gregg to be fired are the same type of fans. If you don't know what other teams are doing who Dement is competing against then I submit you and all the other experts aren't qualified to judge Dements performance considering the competitive imbalance. Then you give me Bobby Knight as an example of a Coach that would do better with this talent than Dement. You just don't get it. HALF OF BOBBY KNIGHT's team are JUCOs or other academic risks.

Just because I don't study every team that we play in depth doesn't mean I can't make a judgement based on OUR coach. I am not saying you are completely wrong by the way. JUCO's help, a lot. But we could do it without them.

Bobby Knight is a good coach. The difference between him and us is that his team rebounded to their loss to us. On the whole, we haven't had the same success they have. Do their JUCO's help? Yes. Is it the main reason they are doing well? Maybe. Could Bobby Knight have done it without them? Most definitely. But it was easier for him to do it the way he did. But you guys have to realize that if he was the coach of a team of high school recruited players, he could still have a ton of success because he is a brilliant basketball coach that understands how to get a team to play like a team and he understands what it means to utilize talent....As my mention of our past teams in my previous post indicates, I don't think Dement knows what it means to do some of that. I am not sure what Old Pony's point is, but obviously Dement isn't the answer. OP, you say that "maybe this isn't a talented team." Well if it isn't, then Dement is still to blame for not recruiting right. If it is a talented team, then Dement is at fault because he can't coach. Either way, we aren't winning a ton of games and it lies on the person who directs the team, coaches the team, leads the team,recruits the team, and teaches the team....the coach.

<small>[ 01-26-2004, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: CoxSMU ]</small>

[OldPony]

But you just gloss over the talent issue by saying that Dement didn't recruit good athletes so it is his fault. You say Bobby could win without JUCOs but there is no proof that he is a winner when he can't recruit on an even field. He certainly always had an even or better than even field at IU. He was very very good there but IU basketball has been good a long time. It's still pretty good without him. Most of the time KU, UK and Duke were better for Bobby's last 10 years there. Those are the schools he should have competed with because those are the ones with similar b'ball history. But it is kind of like saying that Roy Williams is the best coach going because he has an incredible winning percentage. Most people who are decent coaches can have very good winning percentqages at KU and then UNC. Dement had very good records for building programs before getting to SMU. He can't recruit better athletes to SMU because very few coaches other than a big name who could. I don't think we'll get any of them to come here. We have little to sell and can't compete for many of the better athletes. Bob Huggins looks like a good coach. He wouldn't survive a season at SMU without all of you saying he was an idiot. There may be a few who have shown they can build programs but they do so by coaching AND getting athletes SMU wouldn't allow in the school if they were interested. This isn't a single issue problem at SMU. Fire Dement. Then fire his successor. Keep doing it until it dawns on you that no one can win at SMU under the current guidelines unless major reforms are made at SMU or all of the other schools.

[Stallion]

is it lack of motivation or perhaps the fact we don't have a single player that can hit the backside of a Barn? Seriously, we [deleted] about other teams hitting 60% of their 3's against our zone, do we have a single player on the team that you are confident could hit 40% of his 3's if nobody else was even on the Court? We are presently hitting on 29% from the 3 point line. Its not as easy as you Zone-haters seem to think-and at least with respect to that skill we are unequivocably not very talented.

<small>[ 01-26-2004, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: Stallion ]</small>

[Hoop Fan]

Stallion and OP, I'm not saying you guys are wrong, but the bigger issue than casting blame is support and enthusiasm for the program. Sometimes you have to make change for the sake of change. A new coach would have a honeymoon period that we can only hope will lead to a renovation of Moody among other things.

<small>[ 01-26-2004, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Hoop Fan ]</small>

[Stallion]

yep suckers were born every day-keep those dollars coming in and the heat off the AD and administration where it ought to be-buy yourself 4-5 years like after the Cavan situation-you know the guy that was fired a mere 1 year after SMU decided to "commit" itself. That is exactly what makes me want to PUKE! FIX THE DAMN PROGRAM NOW-give the Coaches a reasonable chance to suceed and if they don't you are a more attractive program to the next coach.

<small>[ 01-26-2004, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: Stallion ]</small>