For those interested Jeffcoat committed to Texas today

[redpony]

[quote="SoCal_Pony ]Just curious, why would you ever feel ashamed of being from SMU????[/quote]

Because I was ashamed and embarrassed of our 'chickensh!t' administration that had no cajones to fight. IIRC we were told 'please do not pursue the issue as it would cause additional embarrassment to the university'. Having had the priviledge of watching Doak Walker, Kyle Rote and in later years the 'pony express'I can not imagine more 'pain and embarrassment' than getting the death penalty and being lost in the 'football desert' for more than 20 years.

GO PONIES!!!

[SoCal_Pony]

Great Answer....agree 100%

We are about to witness the biggest 3 weeks in American sports. It’s called March Madness. CBS is paying the NCAA $550 Million a year just to broadcast these games…not the regular season, not the conference tourneys, just March Madness. And people really think everything is above-board?

and for the record, I believe if Ponyfans had been around back then, i.e. an internet vehicle to connect us all, I suspect a lawsuit would have indeed happened..(by alumni of course, not the administration).

I would have loved to contribute to that one.

[Stallion]

By further embarrassment they meant further embarrassment of the Big Wig Contributors of the university who were funding, bankrolling and approving the payments. You realize that several of those bigwigs refused to assist the university or cooperate in any way with the investigation. SMU never released information about the involvement of several of those bigwigs who remained in the good graces of the university. Several of those bigwigs played prominent official roles in the election of Bill Clements. However, SMU decision not to pursue litigation was correct. The cheating at other schools is irrelevant, immaterial and wouldn't have been admitted as evidence in any defense of SMU's action before the NCAA or any lawsuit against the NCAA. Its like defending a murder of Victim A by claiming that you didn't shoot Victim B. Its simply not a defense to offering Recruit A $10,000 to claim but wait UT offered $12,000. It may have been in good faith but it would have been a futile, poorly advised decision. SMU most certainly had to move on and clean up the cheating. It was just that type of obstructionist-SMU v. NCAA attitude which lead to the Death Penalty because "we had a Payroll to Meet". That was simply incredibly stupid defense to a school with 5 probations in a little over 10 years. There is no defense to the lack of institutional control in SMU's case. The evidence was overwhelming. It was a SLAM DUNK case against SMU due to the bumbling fools that ran the university PRIOR to Ken Pye.

[jtstang]

Talk about beating a dead gelding, this is well documented and SMU had it coming like nobody's business.

And for the legal scholar who thinks we'd have been privy to a bunch of discovery about UT cheating by suing the NCAA, please tell me how you got there. I'd love to know how to get past the irrelevant and immaterial arguments in my next discovery motion. And how do you get that discovery, anyway? Serve a subpoena on UT, or ask for all the NCAA documents in the secret locked room? Think you'll get a response etiher way?

[redpony]

Okay- it's best not to proceed with this topic. However, if you think the NCAA is honest and fair with their leveling of penalties then I have a bridge to sell you in Arizona. IE. look at the current situation at USC as well as Alabama and a number of other schools. They all cheat, they all are just as guilty as we were and have not, nor will they ever receive the kind of penalties we received. The ncaa is a kiss-a$$ organization controlled by a bunch of rich alums (sound like UT- yep).

GO PONIES!!!

[jtstang]

Really, what evidence do you have that Schwarzenegger approved the slush fund at USC?

[Stallion]

its a good example of what happens when a bunch of fans with an interest in a particular school get togetherand start a Club (Let's call it the Good-Ole Boy Mustang Club) and actually begin to believe the utter nonsense that they all regurgitate to each other without any one willing to stand up and call Bullshit-YOU ARE CHEATING YOUR [deleted] OFF and your program and your leaders are a disagrace to the university.

[redpony]

JT- with all due respect. Are you trying to imply that no alum or person associated with USC has never helped one of their athletes?? Really??? Same with Alabama, U of Miami etc. etc. etc.
I have friends that went to Ohio State, Texas, and Miami- they all said they were getting money under the table.

GO PONIES!!!

[Topper]

Topper- how well I remember. I will never forget the pain and frustration caused by the refusal to move forward with that lawsuit. I was willing to donate far beyond my means to fight that battle.I was never so ashamed of being from SMU as I was during that period. IMHO had we gone with the lawsuit we would have never received the DP- but of course that is all conjecture.

GO PONIES!!!

I wasn't embarrassed by the cheating (I live in Austin where anyone with eyes and ears and half a brain could see almost the entire community in daily violation of NCAA rules in terms of illegal benefits to players) as I was the fact that a good old fashioned lawsuit would have threatened to blow the lid off of the NCAA. Probably would have done more to actually clean up the whole nationwide mess than 100 death penalties. Unfortunately, once the idiots who were running our payment scheme fled to the dark corners of the earth, the anti-athletics fascists took over.

[RGV Pony]

Really, what evidence do you have that Schwarzenegger approved the slush fund at USC?

what evidence do you have that he didnt? Or anyone else that he didnt? So that gives us a fact dispute which gets us right past an MSJ and $$$ thrown at a mediator and then on to trial, all the while atty fees, atty fees, and more atty fees. Or at least that's what...um....a friend told me

[jtstang]

Really, what evidence do you have that Schwarzenegger approved the slush fund at USC?

what evidence do you have that he didnt? Or anyone else that he didnt? So that gives us a fact dispute which gets us right past an MSJ and $$$ thrown at a mediator and then on to trial, all the while atty fees, atty fees, and more atty fees. Or at least that's what...um....a friend told me

Nothing happens where the lawyers don't make money....

[Insane_Pony_Posse]

However, SMU decision not to pursue litigation was correct. The cheating at other schools is irrelevant, immaterial and wouldn't have been admitted as evidence in any defense of SMU's action before the NCAA or any lawsuit against the NCAA. Its like defending a murder of Victim A by claiming that you didn't shoot Victim B. There is no defense to the lack of institutional control in SMU's case. The evidence was overwhelming. It was a SLAM DUNK case against SMU due to the bumbling fools that ran the university PRIOR to Ken Pye.

It may have been a "Slam Dunk" case, but Stallion in hind-site would a defendent not have an argument upon appeal that no other defendent in history had ever received such harsh punishment and probably never will again thus opening the possibility that the "Death Penalty" was cruel and unusual punishment? Yeah maybe no other guilty as hell defendent had been caught so red-handed, but the punishment still seems "cruel and unusual". However I guess we can agree that Pye actually did as much or more damage to SMU football than the NCAA did. Pye should get as much blame as the NCAA. Pye also cost us Larry Johnson did he not?

[redpony]

[quote="Topper ]the fact that a good old fashioned lawsuit would have threatened to blow the lid off of the NCAA. Probably would have done more to actually clean up the whole nationwide mess than 100 death penalties. Unfortunately, once the idiots who were running our payment scheme fled to the dark corners of the earth, the anti-athletics fascists took over.[/quote]

I have often felt that a lawsuit would have changed the ncaa dramatically and also cleaned up the mess of player/alum violations.
Many of us realize that even with a scholarship some players simply do not have other resources to afford going to school. I have often advocated that the ncaa permit a stipend of 'x' dollars per month to assist players. Any violation of that amount would automatically suspend the player from future participation in that sport and the violating school would automatically lose two scholarships for a period of 5 years.

GO PONIES!!!

[jtstang]

It may have been a "Slam Dunk" case, but Stallion in hind-site would a defendent not have an argument upon appeal that no other defendent in history had ever received such harsh punishment and probably never will again thus opening the possibility that the "Death Penalty" was cruel and unusual punishment? Yeah maybe no other guilty as hell defendent had been caught so red-handed, but the punishment still seems "cruel and unusual". However I guess we can agree that Pye actually did as much or more damage to SMU football than the NCAA did. Pye should get as much blame as the NCAA. Pye also cost us Larry Johnson did he not?

That really only applies to criminal penalties meted out by the government. Private organizations can be as cruel and unusual as they want to and it is not a constitutional issue. There really is no legal avenue to challenge the way that the NCAA enforces its own rules, I don't think. The only successful legal fight by a member institution against the NCAA that I am aware of was the TV rights case, and that was brought under the antitrust laws, I think.

[Dooby]

I love it when people say there should have been or would be a lawsuit by alumni against the NCAA if the death penalty happened today.

THERE WAS ONE. IT WAS DISMISSED.