FireMattDoherty.com

[Stallion]

yes-when I complained that Doherty brought in 7 freshman his first year-and I was one of the first and loudest-a lot of that was aimed still at the administration. It is not clear to me that at the time Doherty was hired that all the changes in the Model had been completed. Based on the evidence of actual players signed there is little doubt that all SMU athletic programs began to admit a much different profile starting about 2 perhaps 2 1/2 years ago-what was happening earlier behind the scenes is less clear. Its difficult to hire a coach without giving him a full deck to work with.

[moodymadmen]

"Basketball and football aren't an apples to apples comparison, you should leave that argument alone, cause it hurts your better points."
PonyDoh, my point isn't to say basketball and football are one in the same, I understand the differences. My point is that for years, or for a quarter century to be exact, I watched SMU football suffer with zero bowl games and horrible, horrible seasons. Then June Jones came along and changed the program immediately with great success, with a bowl win under his belt in year 2. So my point is it CAN BE DONE, because I just witnessed it and it was awesome. I get a bit tired with excuse after excuse for basketball because it implies it can't be done. If it can be done in football, it can be done in basketball is all I'm saying.
We've drowned 4 years and more then $2 million in Doh and have nothing to show for it. No Big Dance, no NIT, no conference tournament wins, no .500 seasons yet-but hopefully that changes this week. I just expect more out of our time and money then what we've received.

[CalallenStang]

"Basketball and football aren't an apples to apples comparison, you should leave that argument alone, cause it hurts your better points."
PonyDoh, my point isn't to say basketball and football are one in the same, I understand the differences. My point is that for years, or for a quarter century to be exact, I watched SMU football suffer with zero bowl games and horrible, horrible seasons. Then June Jones came along and changed the program immediately with great success, with a bowl win under his belt in year 2. So my point is it CAN BE DONE, because I just witnessed it and it was awesome. I get a bit tired with excuse after excuse for basketball because it implies it can't be done. If it can be done in football, it can be done in basketball is all I'm saying.
We've drowned 4 years and more then $2 million in Doh and have nothing to show for it. No Big Dance, no NIT, no conference tournament wins, no .500 seasons yet-but hopefully that changes this week. I just expect more out of our time and money then what we've received.

June Jones didn't have the wrath of the local community to deal with and get past. That's not something SMU administration can change, either. I fail to understand why you, an otherwise rational if somewhat uninformed person, cannot seem to grasp this fact.

[CalallenStang]

.
3) Those reputations are carried throughout the state and, indeed, the country, due to the ever-so-tight high school basketball coaching fraternity.

I thought the HS coaching fraternity didnt matter, as it's Big Shoe & AAU that calls the shots

AAU coaches are tight with HS coaches. Big Shoe only calls the shots for the big stars. I'm sure PonyDoh would say the same.

[moodymadmen]

"June Jones didn't have the wrath of the local community to deal with and get past."
No, he only had a 25 year bowl drought and the death penalty to overcome. Either way, with the local community or bowl drought its a significant challenge, right? So man up and get the job done and don't use it as a crutch is all i'm saying. If one man can overcome a 25 year bowl drought in 2 years why can't we find a man that can overcome the challenges that basketball faces?

[CalallenStang]

"June Jones didn't have the wrath of the local community to deal with and get past."
No, he only had a 25 year bowl drought and the death penalty to overcome. Either way, with the local community or bowl drought its a significant challenge, right? So man up and get the job done and don't use it as a crutch is all i'm saying. If one man can overcome a 25 year bowl drought in 2 years why can't we find a man that can overcome the challenges that basketball faces?

"All I'm saying" is that you can't realistically have expected Doherty to come in to SMU and be snagging Nolan Dennis out of North Richland Hills right off the bat. He had to go find guys who hadn't heard of the school at first because those who were here in the local area had been warned by their coaches to not come here. It's huge momentum for us to get Leslee Smith out of the Houston area and Patsevich out of Collin County Community College.

June Jones could overcome a 25 year bowl drought & death penalty because he could sell previous experience (and because he was the first coach allowed by the school since the death penalty to compete on a level playing field in recruiting). Doherty can't do the same things because that's not the type of obstacle he's facing - the obstacle he's facing is a group of basketball coaches who won't send their kids to SMU no matter who is the coach because of the fact that we fired Jimmy Tubbs (by the way, don't think that it's coincidence that our recruiting efforts in Texas are picking up after the unfortunate death of Tubbs).

[mustangxc]

"Basketball and football aren't an apples to apples comparison, you should leave that argument alone, cause it hurts your better points."
PonyDoh, my point isn't to say basketball and football are one in the same, I understand the differences. My point is that for years, or for a quarter century to be exact, I watched SMU football suffer with zero bowl games and horrible, horrible seasons. Then June Jones came along and changed the program immediately with great success, with a bowl win under his belt in year 2. So my point is it CAN BE DONE, because I just witnessed it and it was awesome. I get a bit tired with excuse after excuse for basketball because it implies it can't be done. If it can be done in football, it can be done in basketball is all I'm saying.
We've drowned 4 years and more then $2 million in Doh and have nothing to show for it. No Big Dance, no NIT, no conference tournament wins, no .500 seasons yet-but hopefully that changes this week. I just expect more out of our time and money then what we've received.

We have won a conference tournament in the Dohert era!!!

[PonyDoh]

"June Jones didn't have the wrath of the local community to deal with and get past."
No, he only had a 25 year bowl drought and the death penalty to overcome. Either way, with the local community or bowl drought its a significant challenge, right? So man up and get the job done and don't use it as a crutch is all i'm saying. If one man can overcome a 25 year bowl drought in 2 years why can't we find a man that can overcome the challenges that basketball faces?

footballs obstacles aren't anything compared to hoops, specifically after the model changed. Again, bringing football into this hurts your legitimate points

[angryfan04]

June Jones knows what he is doing.....doh doesn't.....he's just figuring what "system" he's using?

[PonyDoh]

June Jones knows what he is doing.....doh doesn't.....he's just figuring what "system" he's using?

June runs a gimmicky system, same as Doh is running now, although some would say the princeton approach is purist. What doesn't work at SMU are traditional motion systems based on having superior talent/athletes.

[NickSMU17]

June Jones knows what he is doing.....doh doesn't.....he's just figuring what "system" he's using?

June runs a gimmicky system, same as Doh is running now, although some would say the princeton approach is purist. What doesn't work at SMU are traditional motion systems based on having superior talent/athletes.

June runs a gimmick that a lot of college football teams have taken on...June is an innovator/pioneer....Huge Difference....

Again, bringing football into this hurts your legitimate points

[moodymadmen]

June Jones accomplished something for the first time in 25 years, that hadn't been accomplished since the death penalty...to brush off such accomplishments is turning a blind eye to the new culture and expectations of the two big-time sports on campus. If you don't think the success of football team is affecting the expectations of basketball on the Hilltop then you are naive. Now that the powers that be have tasted success for the first time in a long time, they understandably want to taste more...and have seen what a successful football program and bowl win can do for the school in terms of:
1)Revenue
2)Positive PR/buzz/school spirit
3)Applications
4)Recruiting
Doherty isn't the third highest paid person on the Hilltop to produce subpar results, he makes half a mil per year in order to generate exactly what June Jones has generated: wins, excitement, post-season play, and revenue. It is year 4 and $2 million later that hasn't happened yet for Doh, that's why we are on page 6 of this discussion my pony people. If you can't see the big-picture link between Jones and Doh it doesn't surprise me that you are also blind to the need for a bball coaching change.

[PonyDoh]

June Jones knows what he is doing.....doh doesn't.....he's just figuring what "system" he's using?

June runs a gimmicky system, same as Doh is running now, although some would say the princeton approach is purist. What doesn't work at SMU are traditional motion systems based on having superior talent/athletes.

June runs a gimmick that a lot of college football teams have taken on...June is an innovator/pioneer....Huge Difference....

Again, bringing football into this hurts your legitimate points

You missed my point, as I'm a huge June fan. How many gimmicky systems like the Run'n'shoot do you see in hoops? How many 'innovators' do you see? You can't smoke and mirror in hoops

[CalallenStang]

Okay, so moodymadmen has at least come up with a new argument for the Doh-haters:

"He should be fired because June Jones wins."

That's one intelligent argument right there.

[PonyDoh]

June Jones accomplished something for the first time in 25 years, that hadn't been accomplished since the death penalty...to brush off such accomplishments is turning a blind eye to the new culture and expectations of the two big-time sports on campus. If you don't think the success of football team is affecting the expectations of basketball on the Hilltop then you are naive. Now that the powers that be have tasted success for the first time in a long time, they understandably want to taste more...and have seen what a successful football program and bowl win can do for the school in terms of:
1)Revenue
2)Positive PR/buzz/school spirit
3)Applications
4)Recruiting
Doherty isn't the third highest paid person on the Hilltop to produce subpar results, he makes half a mil per year in order to generate exactly what June Jones has generated: wins, excitement, post-season play, and revenue. It is year 4 and $2 million later that hasn't happened yet for Doh, that's why we are on page 6 of this discussion my pony people. If you can't see the big-picture link between Jones and Doh it doesn't surprise me that you are also blind to the need for a bball coaching change.

Nobody is minimizing Jones' accomplishments, he's a great football coach. Basketball is just a very different situation w/a completely different set of obstacles. It's a culture, not a game, and is far more politically/racially charged. There are no handlers in football, no traveling circuit etc. If the powers that be don't recognize the fundamental differences in a game vs a culture, we're destined to suck in hoops forever. This isn't about just hiring a new coach.