At some schools, the standards are a bit higher

[RGV Pony]

this reminds me...how in the world did we get Wake to come here a few years ago? We never went to Winston-Salem, did we?

[Hoop Fan]

You guys really need to look big picture and quit w/the micro whine. He was EXPECTED to suck mightily in years 2 &3, before he even put ink on the original contract. He was given unilateral control to gut the roster by any means necessary. Orsini never said, hey keep a few kids, even though you want the space, just so we can grab a additional few wins, He said, screw out, gut the squad and rebuild from the bottom floor.

When you have to give a coach, that sort of control of the program, just so he'll take the job, you're in for the long haul. Those situations happen tend to occur when rat out your previous coach, a local DISD legend, not to mention an honest guy that loved the school. The program had a Burgers and Cheer black cloud hanging over it when the guy accepted the position.

Year 1 he assesses the landscape, year 2 & 3 he slashes and burns everything, year 4 we see improvement, year 5 we get tangible results that show we're moving in the right direction etc. Just recognize this was the script and it was written 4 years ago. Now move on

Lets not do a macro whitewash either. These results were expected by who? Orsini? You've said yourself the guy is almost clueless about the roundball game. But even Orsini i guarantee expected something like 18-13 or 17-14 this year against this schedule, not 14-17. No way. 4 games off the mark is not a good result. All we've heard for years around SMU is that we had decent CUSA level players, we just didnt have the coach who could relate, motivate and X and O. Doh isnt thriving on any of those fronts, nor has one single of his 4 teams here 'overachieved' or been a pleasant surprise in any way. And i've asked this before, but did we really need to beg and give a 7 year deal to secure Doh from Florida Atlantic? C'mon, Doh wasn't June Jones.

[Hoop Fan]

this reminds me...how in the world did we get Wake to come here a few years ago? We never went to Winston-Salem, did we?

sure we did, wasnt pretty but we did.

[couch 'em]

The Tubbs era is so far back in the rearview mirror that you need to stop beating that dead horse my friend. No pun intended.

It's relevant considering the rebuilding job that this was after Tubbs' departure.

I just don't understand your Doh love fest. Sure, he MIGHT pan out, but what he inherited was no worse off than what June Jones inherited. Sure, bball and football are different, but compare Doherty's results with Jones' results.

Jones came in, nuked the whole team, started from scratch, and in year 2 he has us doing well. Doherty has been here for years and has slid downhill every year but this one, in a sport with a tiny number of players.

[CalallenStang]

I just don't understand your Doh love fest

I wouldn't call it a Doh love fest...more like a "we're stuck with him, so let's hope for the best" deal. And a focus on the future instead of the past.

Jones had one thing that Doh didn't - a decent chance at getting local recruits.

[EastStang]

A more balanced view would be that Doh has not had a winning season since coming to SMU. He might not have understood the roadblocks in front of him when he came, but whose fault is that? Orsini or Doh? Did he bother to look at the landscape that he would face with the DISD after Tubbs was fired and did he think he could overcome that? Did he think Crum would be like the Field of Dreams and once built, "they would come"? The fact is that while he has the rep as a great recruiter, he didn't have to do it at a school like SMU. Notre Dame has the CYO/Catholic Parochial school pipeline and plays in the Big East. "Hello - Father O'Malley, we'd like that point guard at your school to come to Notre Dame, can you put in a good word for us?" UNC is well, a factory for basketball and plays in the ACC. Big difference between those two schools and SMU/CUSA. Again, he may have thought it was all him, or that a call to Father O'Malley as coach at SMU would yield the same results. I don't know. The fact is that we were 14-17 this year. Yes, we were better than last year. But putrid to merely below average is not a really good scale. I personally hope he does great next year and we do great next year. As one poster said, he's here, let's support him and I will. But the other fact is that he has not been a great fit for SMU and he needs to turn it around or have the decency to bow out gracefully. Let's hope he does well next year so we won't have to have this discussion next off-season.

[CalallenStang]

Well said, EastStang.

[CA Mustang]

The point is that Doh in Year 4 and in Year 1 is better than Tubbs in his last year, which may not be saying much, but it does negate the point you tried to make in this post:

If Tubbs' tenure is supposed to represent the low point, then what does it say that after FOUR YEARS Doherty still hasn't been able to achieve a better record? If that truly was the low point, then Doherty should have surpassed it and taken the school to a higher level.

You are basing that on a statistic where 25% of it consists of opponents' opponents' average winning percentage? That's your justification? By those standards, why weren't you advocating the firing of Doherty of Year 2 or Year 3? After all, look where the RPI was!

Better yet, how about a comparison on a win/loss basis?

[CalallenStang]

The point is that Doh in Year 4 and in Year 1 is better than Tubbs in his last year, which may not be saying much, but it does negate the point you tried to make in this post:

If Tubbs' tenure is supposed to represent the low point, then what does it say that after FOUR YEARS Doherty still hasn't been able to achieve a better record? If that truly was the low point, then Doherty should have surpassed it and taken the school to a higher level.

You are basing that on a statistic where 25% of it consists of opponents' opponents' average winning percentage? That's your justification? By those standards, why weren't you advocating the firing of Doherty of Year 2 or Year 3? After all, look where the RPI was!

Better yet, how about a comparison on a win/loss basis?

CA - I believe in giving all coaches three years. I was advocating firing Doh up until about halfway through this season, though, and I would still advocate firing him if that contract were 5 years, not 7.

Win/Loss comparisons neglect strength of schedule.

[CA Mustang]

You guys really need to look big picture and quit w/the micro whine. He was EXPECTED to suck mightily in years 2 &3, before he even put ink on the original contract. He was given unilateral control to gut the roster by any means necessary. ...

Year 1 he assesses the landscape, year 2 & 3 he slashes and burns everything, year 4 we see improvement, year 5 we get tangible results that show we're moving in the right direction etc. Just recognize this was the script and it was written 4 years ago.

Nice try at revisionist history. Please show me where Doherty, Orsini or anyone else affiliated with SMU stated any of those things. Who said SMU still wouldn't have a winning season after four years? Who said turning the program around would take at LEAST five years?

As for Year 5, nothing is guaranteed. You may expect better results, but it hardly is a sure thing. Based upon Doherty's track record at SMU, you should understand the SERIOUS skepticism.

[CA Mustang]

I believe in giving all coaches three years.

Too bad Tubbs didn't get that.

I was advocating firing Doh up until about halfway through this season, though, and I would still advocate firing him if that contract were 5 years, not 7.

Understood.

Win/Loss comparisons neglect strength of schedule.

Standings (and ultimately accomplishments) are based upon wins, not RPI. RPI matters when you are on the NCAA tournament bubble, not when you record is below .500. No matter how high your RPI is, you aren't going anywhere when you lose more than you win.

[CalallenStang]

I believe in giving all coaches three years.

Too bad Tubbs didn't get that.

I was advocating firing Doh up until about halfway through this season, though, and I would still advocate firing him if that contract were 5 years, not 7.

Understood.

Win/Loss comparisons neglect strength of schedule.

Standings (and ultimately accomplishments) are based upon wins, not RPI. RPI matters when you are on the NCAA tournament bubble, not when you record is below .500. No matter how high your RPI is, you aren't going anywhere when you lose more than you win.

Good points. I think you and I are really on the same page.