TexAgs.com 2011 Texas Top 110

[Stallion]

I'll correct-SMU is looking for top talent too and has thrown its net out for a higher grade of recruit-so far with little success although SMU has a commitment from Yenga who might be considered by some a Top 125 or so player.

[Pony_Fan]

good grief, TCU is mentioned every other day here.

They've only been good for the last what...10 years... and kicked our [deleted] every year.
Bennett left us with sh*t - gimme a break. We got to a bowl, we get in Top 25, then we hope for bigger and better things. By the end of his tenure, I would hope to be consistently in the top 25 or Top 15. That is like comparing us to UT or the like. Stupid comparison at this point. They have shown for quite some time they are COMMITTED to being good and staying good.

[Cadillac]

What he's saying is that the long term talent disparity between SMU and TCU is actually growing-I agree with that. SMU is looking for sleepers-TCU is recruiting lately in the upper half of the Big 12.

Absolutely. However, I would suggest that this has more to do with TCU getting much better in recruiting than with SMU not growing as anticipated. The flaw in the logic that we'd compete with TCU in four years was the idea that TCU would remain stagnant where they were. between the recruiting classes of 2006-2008 (the years being looked at during the time of Jone's hire) TCU averaged the 79th ranked class (Rivals). June's third recruiting class (2010) is ranked 76th (Rivals). It seems like SMU is moving along the course that we hoped, but that TCU is just blowing up.

-CoS

[Stallion]

Look you are just playing games with numbers because TCU signs small classes every year. If it makes you feel better then fine but it doesn't mean you know the first thing about recruiting and you simply make yourself look foolish to those that do know the truth. TCU in the last 8 years last time I checked had something like 4 Classes that were the No. 1 ranked non-BCS Classes in the country in per recruit average. In something like 7 years they were in the Top 3. I posted the exact numbers since signing date.

As for poor old SMU argument-let it be remembered that Franchione who took over a 1-10 team signed a Top 30 class and another class that was one of the best in Texas in his FIRST TWO full years of recruiting to the WAC. SMU and Jones who has a lot higher profile than Franchione when he took the TCU job has a lot to offer now with a Bowl Win and they need to start showing solid improvement in recruiting if they want to start competing with the better teams on our schedule.

If you really want to get a good feel for just how dominate TCU has been-then go to TCU's worst recruiting classes and count the number and quality of TCU's offers to SMUs. For example, TCU commitments in 2011 have 26 offers most of which are top quality offers. SMU has a commitment from 1 recruit with 1 other offer from a CUSA team. The two schools have been recruiting on two completely different levels for at least 12 years-its time to close that gap if Jones wants to catch TCU before he retires

[Stallion]

Here's a previous excerpt from that prior posted data:

Franchione and Patterson had immediate recruiting success-that's how TCU built a nationally prominent non-BCS program.
Based on average per recruit TCU has finished in the Top 3 of all current non-BCS schools in the following years which are availiable on Rivals:

2003-3rd
2004-2nd
2005-3rd
2006-1st
2007-1st
2009-1st
2010-1st

and I don't have them in front of me but I'm pretty sure- Franchione's first two classes would have been No. 1 too. I've previously posted articles about Franchione's 2 classes which were highly nationally ranked even recruiting out of the WAC. Results follow recruiting success.

In the same average per recruit rankings June Jones has finished No. 90th(throw that out-2 weeks to recruit), 80th and 76nd. That's how I grade the long term prognosis in the strength of the program. You may disagree-but you can't really dispute that recruiting rankings directly correlate to the emergence of the TCU program. When you can truly bring in the best players-like he repeatedly states he thinks he can then he gets elevated to the next level.

[Alaric]

Stallion always ignores the fact that Franchione inherited a better situation in terms of talent (the 1-10 season in 1997 was an aberration due to off the field problems) than June Jones did because he inherited Ladanian Tomlinson (first year was 1997) and a team with better talent and recent winning history (bowl game in 1994 versus SMU not winning in 25 years).

Sullivan was building a decent program until his implosion (4-7 in 1993 (Pat Sullivan's first year), 7-5 in 1994 & a trip to a bowl game, 6-5 in 1995, 4-7 in 1996, 1-10 in 1997). There where several scandals in 96-97 that doomed Sullivan's otherwise promising tenure including this story where a student's dad (prominent TCU alum/doctor who played bball at TCU lead a charge to get rid of Sullivan for lack of control of his players after his son suffered a brain injury):

FORT WORTH, Texas -- A former TCU football player accused of beating another student in 1996 was acquitted Monday from charges of aggravated assault causing serious bodily injury. William Justin "Billy" Thompson was the only one of four former football players who pleaded not guilty to the offense. Ryan Tucker, J.P. McFarland and Jason Davern have pleaded no contest and will be sentenced in April. The four men were accused of beating then-TCU student Bryan Boyd on May 11, 1996, outside a downtown bar. Boyd suffered a fractured skull and temporary facial paralysis, among other injuries.

THE FUNNY THING IS THAT STALLION ALWAYS SAYS YOU CAN'T WIN WITHOUT TALENT AND FRANCHIONE STARTED WINNING IMMEDIATELY UPON ARRIVAL AT TCU. FOLLOWING STALLION'S BEATEN DOWN, DEAD HORSE, THEY MUST HAVE HAD TALENT. TCU WAS ALREADY ON THE RISE WHEN FRANCHIONE GOT THERE NOTWITHSTANDING A 1997 TEAM MARRED BY CONTROVERSY.

[ponyboy]

Recruiting is important and Stallion is right to emphasize it. But Jones has shown he can win more with less talent than the next guy. Again this is not to suggest we recruit bums; no doubt talent makes winning much easier.

Top 25 is the goal. TCU, being top 10, is not. At least not yet.

[Stallion]

But my point is that SMU went 8-5 last year and won a bowl- better than all of Pat Sulliven's years regardless of the 1-10 team. Never made a point one way or another about Sulliven's recruiting although I have in the past stated that TCU program was in better shape. Time to start expecting better recruiting if we are going to raise our level of play to compete with the BCS teams TCU has regularly beaten.

[Alaric]

But my point is that SMU went 8-5 last year and won a bowl- better than all of Pat Sulliven's years regardless of the 1-10 team. Never made a point one way or another about Sulliven's recruiting although I have in the past stated that TCU program was in better shape. Time to start expecting better recruiting if we are going to raise our level of play to compete with the BCS teams TCU has regularly beaten.

I expect more too and we'll get it...just think that kids around here have grown up laughing at SMU's 25 years of futility and that can't be erased overnight.

[Cadillac]

Look you are just playing games with numbers because TCU signs small classes every year. If it makes you feel better then fine but it doesn't mean you know the first thing about recruiting and you simply make yourself look foolish to those that do know the truth. TCU in the last 8 years last time I checked had something like 4 Classes that were the No. 1 ranked non-BCS Classes in the country in per recruit average. In something like 7 years they were in the Top 3. I posted the exact numbers since signing date.

What the [deleted]? I'm playing with the numbers because I just used what was on the top layer? I'm trying to trick you because my analysis lacked depth? I look foolish because you've taken more time to look at this than I did? I don't disagree with anything that you've written here, yet I still can't figure out why you're such an [deleted].

-CoS

[Alaric]

Look you are just playing games with numbers because TCU signs small classes every year. If it makes you feel better then fine but it doesn't mean you know the first thing about recruiting and you simply make yourself look foolish to those that do know the truth. TCU in the last 8 years last time I checked had something like 4 Classes that were the No. 1 ranked non-BCS Classes in the country in per recruit average. In something like 7 years they were in the Top 3. I posted the exact numbers since signing date.

What the [deleted]? I'm playing with the numbers because I just used what was on the top layer? I'm trying to trick you because my analysis lacked depth? I look foolish because you've taken more time to look at this than I did? I don't disagree with anything that you've written here, yet I still can't figure out why you're such an [deleted].

-CoS

You're at fault for trying to understand Stallion's emotional state.

[Stallion]

Better than living in an ignorant state. If you don't want your illusions challenged then I suggest not posting nonsense.

[Dooby]

As for poor old SMU argument-let it be remembered that Franchione who took over a 1-10 team signed a Top 30 class and another class that was one of the best in Texas in his FIRST TWO full years of recruiting to the WAC.

Technically not accurate as Fran was hired from a WAC school. He had been recruiting for New Mexico in the WAC in Texas for years.

Fran was a hell of a recruiter. TCU made a hell of a commitment. TCU had a hell of a lot of luck. Patterson has kept it going.

Bully for them.

[Stallion]

Techniquely not accurate-Franchione was not known as a great recruiter until he had the great TCU classes. Franchione was known as a Coach who built one pretty good New Mexico team in a weak WAC by focusing on a lot of Texas players. Big Difference. He never signed any Big Fish from Texas while at New Mexico-at TCU he immediately signed many Big Fish. But he did have plenty of great contacts throughout Texas High Schools which I've always thought was important.

[Cadillac]

Better than living in an ignorant state. If you don't want your illusions challenged then I suggest not posting nonsense.

I like the flow of information, but just can't figure out why you're such a [deleted] bag.

-CoS