Jones to Student Senate: Horsies and TV Viewers

[CalallenStang]

1. Col. Reb does not = Peruna.
2. The average recruit will see a small school and not want to play there, either. A team so fearsome that you have to explain it.
3. The point of recruiting is to sway recruits one way or another and correct misconceptions they may have. If our coaching staff can not do that, then maybe they aren't as good at recruiting as we think. Ron Meyer, Bobby Collins, etc. could recruit without introducing geldings to the field. And don't try to rebut this by saying that that's because they were paying players - 75% of the schools in the SWC were paying players at that time and we weren't paying any more than anyone else.

Ron Meyer and Bobby Collins recruited in the SWC before the death penalty. This is a completely different environment. Every player that SMU recruits this year will have been born after the death penalty. Your examples of success come from a lifetime ago. Peruna has since then been sullied with SMU's disastrous athletics.

If the coaching staff has to correct misconceptions about SMU's mascot, as you suggest, then you are admitting that Peruna is a hindrance. It prevents the coaches from simply selling the program, and turns them into apologists for a mascot that has been the only lasting symbol of a losing program. Selling a program to a recruit is hard enough without the added obstacle of this Shetland pony.

I'll play devil's advocate.

Say I'm a recruit. I say "I don't want to go to a school with two neutered mascots." Now convince me that SMU is the right place.

[Samurai Stang]

Say I'm a recruit. I say "I don't want to go to a school with two neutered mascots." Now convince me that SMU is the right place.

The number of prospective athletes that would take issue with the larger horses would be far fewer than those that take issue with miniaturized animals.

No recruit would have your bitterness and ask such a question, as they would not have the shame of having lost on this issue. Believe it or not, most individuals worldwide find Shetland ponies to be far more comical than a full-size horse. Horses have been ridden into battle throughout the world. Shetland ponies are the subject of mockery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz2q38l0Sl0

Then again, perhaps your recruiting strategy would call for targeting only those that have fond memories from childhood of having visited the petting zoo.

[CalallenStang]

Say I'm a recruit. I say "I don't want to go to a school with two neutered mascots." Now convince me that SMU is the right place.

The number of prospective athletes that would take issue with the larger horses would be far fewer than those that take issue with miniaturized animals.

No recruit would have your bitterness and ask such a question, as they would not have the shame of having lost on this issue. Believe it or not, most individuals worldwide find Shetland ponies to be far more comical than a full-size horse. Horses have been ridden into battle throughout the world. Shetland ponies are the subject of mockery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz2q38l0Sl0

Then again, perhaps your recruiting strategy would call for targeting those that have fond memories from childhood of having visited the petting zoo.

My recruiting strategy would be the following:

"When it comes to football programs, the size of the school doesn't matter. What matters is the spirit of the team. SMU's mascot, Peruna, is a living illustration of that. Though a small horse, he has (tell 2 or 3 Peruna-related antedotes). The football team is committed to leading this small school past the schools that are bigger than us, because we have a spirit that cannot be matched by any other school." Then go into the specifics.

This issue isn't dead and I haven't lost. Unlike your countrymen, I won't surrender, ever, and it will take much more than a couple of atomic bombs to defeat me.

SMU students, represented by the Student Senate, voted 32-3 to name SMU the official mascot. I'd venture to guess that they are a lot closer to the average age of recruits than you are.

[CalallenStang]

And further, Samurai Stang, since you want to resort to personal attacks rather than real logical arguments (other than your argument that June Jones & staff can't recruit without big horses, which is laughable), I shall not dignify any further replies by you with a response.

[Samurai Stang]

This issue isn't dead and I haven't lost. Unlike your countrymen, I won't surrender, ever, and it will take much more than a couple of atomic bombs to defeat me.

One can still retain honor in admitting defeat. That is what you will never understand.

All of your posturing is in poor taste. When you hold someone in your arms and they literally fall out of their skin, then you learn what your kind of statement means. When 100,000 people die around you, then you can talk about atomic bombs, and how you would be so much braver than the Japanese. You might believe yourself strong, and Japan weak. But Japan saved itself. Your inability to see the benefit of peace when victory is impossible, reveals much about your own mindset.

Then again, I actually do believe you will never give up on this issue. For all of Tojo's military mistakes, he was far wiser than you, seeing the benefit in a "humiliating peace." So tell me you would not surrender to that kind of might only when you really appreciate the extent of the death and horror that took place.

Your precious pony is nothing compared to the analogy you want to make.

[Samurai Stang]

And further, Samurai Stang, since you want to resort to personal attacks rather than real logical arguments (other than your argument that June Jones & staff can't recruit without big horses, which is laughable), I shall not dignify any further replies by you with a response.

By calling you bitter? No, I think that you have proven me correct on that point.

And my statement about the petting zoo was of equal value to the very slanted question you claimed a recruit would ask.

And I never claimed recruiting was impossible, I claimed that Peruna was detrimental. There is a difference.

[PK]

Ron Meyer and Bobby Collins recruited in the SWC before the death penalty. This is a completely different environment. Every player that SMU recruits this year will have been born after the death penalty. Your examples of success come from a lifetime ago. Peruna has since then been sullied with SMU's disastrous athletics.

Selling a program to a recruit is hard enough without the added obstacle of this Shetland pony.

What sells a program is winning...period...otherwise TCU would never get a recruit based upon their mascot. I would also like to remind you that a Peruna has killed another schools mascot (Fordam's goat) with a swift kick to the head and has put Bevo on his [deleted]. Sounds pretty ferocious to me. I would advise you that if you ever think you want to stand behind Peruna, you give it some additional thought. I also question what kind of person relies on a team mascot to get his feeling of worth or bravado. If you win games the way TCU does it doesn't matter what your mascot is. Let's see, Alabama Elephants, Arkansas Hogs...those must be a pretty big hindrance to them. Hmm...I suppose the Miami dolphins must have a pretty hard time living with that mascot. In other words Samuri...I call BS.

[CalallenStang]

All of your posturing is in poor taste.

Fine. It was over the line and I can admit that. Fair?

But your argument that we need to change the mascot for recruiting reasons is ridiculous. We recruited well with Peruna in the 80s. Your response was that that was because we were in the SWC. Now we are in CUSA so we need to be able to recruit well against Houston (no longer has any live mascot), Rice (no live mascot), UTEP (no live mascot), Tulsa (no live mascot and their costumed mascot is so laughable it's not even funny - see photo below), and our other conference mates in addition to our traditional rival, TCU (they are the HORNED FROGS - which Peruna can crush simply with one hoof).

My point is that the shetland pony, even if it is as laughable as you claim, is still a more fearsome mascot than the schools which we must recruit against. Thus you have no legitimate argument whatsoever.

And here is Tulsa's Captain Cane - and they recruit well with this thing as their mascot, too:

[Samurai Stang]

Let's see, Alabama Elephants, Arkansas Hogs...those must be a pretty big hindrance to them. Hmm...I suppose the Miami dolphins must have a pretty hard time living with that mascot. In other words Samuri...I call BS.

You name programs that are in the SEC with large fan bases and long histories of winning. Miami is in the NFL, and that involves salaries, not recruiting. Although, one could argue that the same takes place in much of college, but that is beside the point.

True, there are programs with mascots that are unusual. The difference is that SMU does not have the fan base, tradition, or money of Alabama.

SMU has been irrelevant for so long that Peruna is no longer an interesting gimmick, but a forgotten oddity.

[Samurai Stang]

My point is that the shetland pony, even if it is as laughable as you claim, is still a more fearsome mascot than the schools which we must recruit against. Thus you have no legitimate argument whatsoever.

And here is Tulsa's Captain Cane - and they recruit well with this thing as their mascot, too:

The Tulsa mascot is indeed horrible. That being said, it may actually be better than the tornado(?) that they had before. Although having to choose between the two would not be a task I would wish upon anyone.

Costumed mascots are often given a free pass, as they are simply seen as being for children. Almost every school has some embarrassing costumed individual to keep children from making their parents take them home. As for other schools not having mascots, that actually works for them. Having no living animal mascot may actually be preferable to Peruna. Simply having an animal is not an advantage in itself.

[CalallenStang]

Costumed mascots are often given a free pass, as they are simply seen as being for children.

That's your rebuttal? So you mean that this whole time June Jones could have been getting better recruits if he had told the recruits that Peruna was just for children?

I would maintain that ALL mascots are for the fans and the only time they ever factor into recruiting is when they are an offensive symbol such as Col. Reb.

[PK]

This issue isn't dead and I haven't lost. Unlike your countrymen, I won't surrender, ever, and it will take much more than a couple of atomic bombs to defeat me.

Calallen, those remarks are totally inappropriate and uncalled for. I would suggest that you issue an apology.

[CalallenStang]

This issue isn't dead and I haven't lost. Unlike your countrymen, I won't surrender, ever, and it will take much more than a couple of atomic bombs to defeat me.

Calallen, those remarks are totally inappropriate and uncalled for. I would suggest that you issue an apology.

I did - see above where I admitted it was over the line. When caught up in debate, it is common for people to say things that are absolutely inappropriate. I did such a thing and it's something that I regret and sincerely apologize for.

[PK]

Let's see, Alabama Elephants, Arkansas Hogs...those must be a pretty big hindrance to them. Hmm...I suppose the Miami dolphins must have a pretty hard time living with that mascot. In other words Samuri...I call BS.

You name programs that are in the SEC with large fan bases and long histories of winning. Miami is in the NFL, and that involves salaries, not recruiting. Although, one could argue that the same takes place in much of college, but that is beside the point.

True, there are programs with mascots that are unusual. The difference is that SMU does not have the fan base, tradition, or money of Alabama.

SMU has been irrelevant for so long that Peruna is no longer an interesting gimmick, but a forgotten oddity.

The four most important things to a recruit is...1.) is this a winning program; 2.) will I get media attention, i.e., lots of TV exposure; 3.) will playing here help me get into the NFL; 4.) will I get to play right away. Not necessarily in that order. Everything else is of minor importance.

[CalallenStang]

Let's see, Alabama Elephants, Arkansas Hogs...those must be a pretty big hindrance to them. Hmm...I suppose the Miami dolphins must have a pretty hard time living with that mascot. In other words Samuri...I call BS.

You name programs that are in the SEC with large fan bases and long histories of winning. Miami is in the NFL, and that involves salaries, not recruiting. Although, one could argue that the same takes place in much of college, but that is beside the point.

True, there are programs with mascots that are unusual. The difference is that SMU does not have the fan base, tradition, or money of Alabama.

SMU has been irrelevant for so long that Peruna is no longer an interesting gimmick, but a forgotten oddity.

The four most important things to a recruit is...1.) is this a winning program; 2.) will I get media attention, i.e., lots of TV exposure; 3.) will playing here help me get into the NFL; 4.) will I get to play right away. Not necessarily in that order. Everything else is of minor importance.

You might want to add in location. Some recruits prefer to be close to their family.